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Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: Germanic sounding names on WM's |
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Anne raised a question about a family grave on SWGP
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?p=21387#21387
about James Albert Homberg who served as 2nd Lt James Albert Smith
(his mother's maiden name)
I assume that his family surname was considered too "germanic"????
I was wondering how War Memorial Committees would have handled such a case????
Name: SMITH, JAMES ALBERT
Initials: J A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery
Unit Text: 30th Div. Ammunition Col.
Date of Death: 21/03/1918
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 7 to 10.
Memorial: POZIERES MEMORIAL _________________ Ken |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Ken
I suspect Memorial Commitees might well have used the family name Homberg, as it would have been well known locally. Unless he actually changed his name legally after 1911 they would not have known of him as Smith if he simply used this name ( which happens to be his mother's maiden name) on enlisting
There are cases where the family did not want a man recorded on a memorial with links to Germany, such as this, being one of the reasons this sometimes occurred. It was ther choice to make. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Jim
I guess I was wondering whether the "anti-german" sentiments which were around in the early years of the war would still have been in evidence.
Another random thought - were there anti-bulgarian or anti-turkish riots? _________________ Ken |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I has a wee look at both Bearsden & Milngavie Civic Memorials - no Hombergs or Smiths.
No sign of him on the Evening Times Roll of Honour either.
Looking at Census Returns, unless his father Gustav has been mis-transcribed, it looks as though he only came here sometime between 1881 - 1891.
The family were living at Gala Cottage in Rothesay Bute 1891 and Gustav Snr's birthplace is '(Colonised) Gamay', occupation 'Tummys Manufacturers Agent'.
Colonised Germany?
By 1891 they're at 46 Cahkin Road, Cathcart - no sign of father Gustav, it was just Margaret and the weans. She is listed as Button Manufacurer's Agents Wife and young Albert's birthplace listed as Glasgow. (Just Albert - not James Albert)
(I like Tummy Manufacturer's Agent best!!) |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | (I like Tummy Manufacturer's Agent best!!) |
At this sort of nonsense, you just cannot beat Ancestry.
Equally worrying is that people believe them and relate it to others.
Thus Mr Homberg is born in Gamay. This is the name of a village in Burgandy, France famed for the grapes of the same name.
Gustav is at home in 1911 at the same address. He states he is a Smallware Commission Agent, born Germany.
James A Homberg is a warehouse clerk, drapery. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: Otto |
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There's a Cpl. Frederick Otto Black on Scoonie Parish, Leven.
Name: BLACK, FREDERICK OTTO
Initials: F O
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
Unit Text: "A" Coy. 2nd Bn.
Age: 25
Date of Death: 09/05/1915
Service No: 3/1231
Additional information: Son of Joseph and L. A. Black, of 45, East High St., Methil, Fife.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panels 24 to 26.
Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL
It's only a middle name, but Otto is German, right?.....
Cheers,
Derek. |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
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We had a Hans as a middle name the other day too. Otto is very Germanic but I'm sure there was a Norman with a name like that (Norman as in Normandy, not someone called Norman).
The man who commissioned the Bayeux tapestry was Duke Odo, Bishop of Bayeux but he is sometimes called Otto.
I also think that it is used by Norwegians.
Adam |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: F.J.W. Focken |
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Listed upon Dollar Academy memorial is Fred Focken
Name: FOCKEN, FREDERICK JOHN WILLIAM
Initials: F J W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Captain
Regiment/Service: Royal Army Service Corps
Age: 37
Date of Death: between 18/12/1941 and 25/12/1941
Service No: 221883
Additional information: Son of Frederick John Charles and Mary Focken; husband of Frances Beatrice Focken, of Bowral, New South Wales, Australia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Column 21.
Memorial: SAI WAN MEMORIAL |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:16 am Post subject: Planck |
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Andrew W. Planck is on the Rothesay memorials names for WW2.
Although he was recorded as Plank by CWGC.
(See further explanation on Rothesay thread)
Cheers,
Derek. |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Carl Otto Anderson is the 7th casualty listed upon the Bo'ness memorial.
His forenames are very Germanic sounding.
Derek. |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Hugh L. Schulze is on the Gala memorial.
Derek. |
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DerekR Moderator
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 3013 Location: Hawick, Scotland
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Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:29 am Post subject: |
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DelBoy wrote: | Hugh L. Schulze is on the Gala memorial.
Derek. |
As is his brother W.Rudolph Schulze.
Their father was German and was subjected to what appears to have been an unprecedented vilification but the British authorities at the start of the Great War. _________________
Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear. |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:48 pm Post subject: David Kienzler - H.L.I. |
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I'm unsure of its origin but the thoroughly unscottish sounding Kienzler is upon the memorial at Newmilns in Ayrshire.
Davids parents were David and Jane, so the name had perhaps been in the area for some time?
Derek. |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Scots lad Albert Zeller, who is on Stirlings memorial, had german parents, there was no hiding this in his death notice in the JUNE scotsman notice of his death in action.
(The Scotsman 12th June 1915)
"Private Albert Zeller, 1st Cameron Highlanders (reported killed), who was born in Stirling, was a son of Mr George Zeller, a German, who carried on a Pork butcher's business in Stirling. He was a joiner to trade, and enlisted last September. For a number of years he was a member of the 7th Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (T.F.)."
Born in Stirling in 1891 to George Zeller, a butcher, and Margaretha Schrof, who were marriend in Middlesborough in 1873. He was killed in action aged 23.
CWGC
ZELLER, ALBERT
Rank: Private
Service No: 3/6096
Date of Death: 09/05/1915
Regiment/Service: Cameron Highlanders 1st Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 41 and 42.
Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL |
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Roxy Moderator - Morayshire
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 510 Location: Elgin, Moray
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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A number of my rellies named 'Becker' fought during the Great War. Although they lived in Edinburgh, their dad was German.
Roxy _________________ Remembering my ggf, Pte Thomas Roberts, 10 SR, killed 25 Sep 15 at Loos.
Also remembering Flt Lt Al Squires and CXX/3 killed 2 Sep 06 in Afghanistan. |
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