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Douglas Bank Cemetery Cross of Sacrifice

 
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john burnett



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 793
Location: Fife

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:33 pm    Post subject: Douglas Bank Cemetery Cross of Sacrifice Reply with quote

UKNIWM 8516
DOUGLAS BANK CEMETERY
A985
ROSYTH
FIFE
SCOTLAND
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1675
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: DUNFERMLINE (DOUGLAS BANK) CEMETERY Reply with quote

CWGC has this cemetery listed as DUNFERMLINE (DOUGLAS BANK) CEMETERY. Blomfield's Cross of Sacrifice stands in the middle of the Naval plot. There are 206 identified casualties.

I am not really sure if the Cross of Sacrifice on its own qualifies as a war memorial here.
A very small number have names on them, but this does not appear to be the case here
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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David McNay
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Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been other Cross of Sacrifice included on the site already, they should be posted in the "other" section.

I am of the opinion that they can be considered a focal point of remembrance, and therefore they are as qualified as a war memorial as any other on this site.
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john burnett



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 793
Location: Fife

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:01 am    Post subject: Douglas Reply with quote

Two reasons why I submitted it are a) it was on list of Fife Memorials b) it is recorded on UKNIWM. I think it probably falls between the two criteria.

Thanks for telling me where it is on CWGC, I was searching using more local place names and was getting nowhere. Besides the CWGC gravestones there are a great many relating to service personnel, from all nationalities, who died during wars and in between wars. I was on a "hike" that day otherwise I could have spent hours there.
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: DUNFERMLINE CEMETERY Reply with quote

John

I appreciate the kind words. I was intersted why the cross was there given the layout shown behind it. It appears that there are two cemetries here, from the CWGC aspect they may appear as one but may be legally individual.
Also listed at Dunfermline is DUNFERMLINE CEMETERY with 154 casualties, From the details of the position of it's Cross of Sacrifice they appear to be the same location.

The old part of this cemetry was closed off by the Local Authority in 2003 for " safety reasons " with limited acess. If this is not the case when you visited I would be interested to know.
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If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking up Fife Council's website it lists only one Cemetery for Dunfermline which is open for burials

Douglas Bank Cemetery, Pattiesmuir, Dunfermline,KY11 3ES

The town's Crematorium also seems to be here too.

Another website lists Douglas and Dunfermline Cemeteries seperately and gives theM different OS refs.

Douglas Bank Cemetery, Pattiesmuir, by Rosyth NT 091838

Dunfermline Cemetery, Halbeath Road, Dunfermline NT 105881

I haven't loked up any maps so they might sit next to each other?

Adam
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john burnett



Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 793
Location: Fife

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject: Douglas Bank Reply with quote

Jim,
the cemetery I visited, Douglas Bank, is near Pattiesmuir or Rosyth which is why I never connected it with Dunfermline. I expect now it does come under that local authority remit. The following link is where it is situated.
http://www.fifedirect.org.uk/atoz/index.cfm?fuseaction=gmap.display&objectid=30FAEC05-B4E8-4CCD-96BAF7894F27AC50
I never went right round the cemetery but couldn't see any area blocked off.

There is another cemetery - Dunfermline, Halbeath Road. I have not visited this but will try and get more information on it.
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking up an OS map I can see these cemeteries are not together.

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

It might be worth contacting this person from Fife Council to check on the Old Part of Douglas Bank.

Margaret Lyle, Bereavement Services Clerk
Tel: 01383 602335

This Fife Council webpage also has her e-mail address

http://www.fifedirect.org.uk/atoz/index.cfm?fuseaction=facility.display&facid=30FAEC05-B4E8-4CCD-96BAF7894F27AC50

Regards

Adam
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1675
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Dunfermline CWGC Cemetries Reply with quote

Adam

Quote:
The old part of this cemetry was closed off by the Local Authority in 2003 for " safety reasons " with limited acess.


This related to Dunfermline Cemetery which you and John confirm is the Halbeath Road one in Dunfermline. Using Dunfermline in the CWGC listing is slightly missleading. You would have expected the link to the Rosyth Base being retained in the name.

Clearly they are seperate although the CWGC descriptions are very similar. It can be that a cemetery with an adjoining extension are listed seperatly by CWGC as they come under individual legal arrangements.

There is another WW1 burial at DUNFERMLINE ABBEY CHURCHYARD
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

Sorry, I got my cemeteries mixed up. It is all a bit confusing.

From the list on the Fife Council website I take it Dunfermline Cemetery is closed for burials and so Rosyth's Douglas Bank cemetery is now classed by the Council as Dunfermline's Cemetery. CWGC will go on the current name for its online database. If you look up the old IWGC registers the name is not always the same.

Just to confuse matters further there is only one cemetery listed under Rosyth in the CWGC database. Rosyth Old Churchyard.

http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=733

CWGC also lists one Dunfermline civilian casualty but does not make it clear which cemetery they are buried in.

POLLOCK, THOMAS
Initials: T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 71
Date of Death: 04/11/1940
Additional information: of 76 Main Street, Kingseat. Died at 76 Main Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: DUNFERMLINE, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND

The other Dunfermline cemetery, Dunfermline Abbey Churchyard has been recorded on the War Graves site

http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=587

Regards

Adam
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1675
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWGC have no remit to record or commemorate the place of burial, etc of civilians of WW2 as this is outwith the terms of their Charter. It was, however, agreed that they would record details of these individuals, as submitted by the relevant Reporting Authority, on the Debt of Honour Roll in a seperate record. These are those given for Thomas Pollock under BURGH OF DUNFERMLINE, SCOTLAND.


Quote:
CWGC will go on the current name for its online database. If you look up the old IWGC registers the name is not always the same.


The names of these cemetries are the same today as in the original 1931 IWGC register.
Dunfermline Cemetery is said to belong (then) to the County Council and Douglas Bank to the Town Council (except for 2.5 acres which had been sold to the Royal Navy).
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk
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