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john burnett
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 790 Location: Fife
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Douglas Bank Cemetery Cross of Sacrifice |
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UKNIWM 8516
DOUGLAS BANK CEMETERY
A985
ROSYTH
FIFE
SCOTLAND
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: DUNFERMLINE (DOUGLAS BANK) CEMETERY |
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CWGC has this cemetery listed as DUNFERMLINE (DOUGLAS BANK) CEMETERY. Blomfield's Cross of Sacrifice stands in the middle of the Naval plot. There are 206 identified casualties.
I am not really sure if the Cross of Sacrifice on its own qualifies as a war memorial here.
A very small number have names on them, but this does not appear to be the case here _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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David McNay Administrator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 11425 Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:08 am Post subject: |
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There have been other Cross of Sacrifice included on the site already, they should be posted in the "other" section.
I am of the opinion that they can be considered a focal point of remembrance, and therefore they are as qualified as a war memorial as any other on this site. |
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john burnett
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 790 Location: Fife
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: Douglas |
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Two reasons why I submitted it are a) it was on list of Fife Memorials b) it is recorded on UKNIWM. I think it probably falls between the two criteria.
Thanks for telling me where it is on CWGC, I was searching using more local place names and was getting nowhere. Besides the CWGC gravestones there are a great many relating to service personnel, from all nationalities, who died during wars and in between wars. I was on a "hike" that day otherwise I could have spent hours there. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: DUNFERMLINE CEMETERY |
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John
I appreciate the kind words. I was intersted why the cross was there given the layout shown behind it. It appears that there are two cemetries here, from the CWGC aspect they may appear as one but may be legally individual.
Also listed at Dunfermline is DUNFERMLINE CEMETERY with 154 casualties, From the details of the position of it's Cross of Sacrifice they appear to be the same location.
The old part of this cemetry was closed off by the Local Authority in 2003 for " safety reasons " with limited acess. If this is not the case when you visited I would be interested to know. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Looking up Fife Council's website it lists only one Cemetery for Dunfermline which is open for burials
Douglas Bank Cemetery, Pattiesmuir, Dunfermline,KY11 3ES
The town's Crematorium also seems to be here too.
Another website lists Douglas and Dunfermline Cemeteries seperately and gives theM different OS refs.
Douglas Bank Cemetery, Pattiesmuir, by Rosyth NT 091838
Dunfermline Cemetery, Halbeath Road, Dunfermline NT 105881
I haven't loked up any maps so they might sit next to each other?
Adam |
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john burnett
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 790 Location: Fife
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Douglas Bank |
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Jim,
the cemetery I visited, Douglas Bank, is near Pattiesmuir or Rosyth which is why I never connected it with Dunfermline. I expect now it does come under that local authority remit. The following link is where it is situated.
http://www.fifedirect.org.uk/atoz/index.cfm?fuseaction=gmap.display&objectid=30FAEC05-B4E8-4CCD-96BAF7894F27AC50
I never went right round the cemetery but couldn't see any area blocked off.
There is another cemetery - Dunfermline, Halbeath Road. I have not visited this but will try and get more information on it. |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Looking up an OS map I can see these cemeteries are not together.
Adam |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: Dunfermline CWGC Cemetries |
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Adam
Quote: | The old part of this cemetry was closed off by the Local Authority in 2003 for " safety reasons " with limited acess. |
This related to Dunfermline Cemetery which you and John confirm is the Halbeath Road one in Dunfermline. Using Dunfermline in the CWGC listing is slightly missleading. You would have expected the link to the Rosyth Base being retained in the name.
Clearly they are seperate although the CWGC descriptions are very similar. It can be that a cemetery with an adjoining extension are listed seperatly by CWGC as they come under individual legal arrangements.
There is another WW1 burial at DUNFERMLINE ABBEY CHURCHYARD _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Jim
Sorry, I got my cemeteries mixed up. It is all a bit confusing.
From the list on the Fife Council website I take it Dunfermline Cemetery is closed for burials and so Rosyth's Douglas Bank cemetery is now classed by the Council as Dunfermline's Cemetery. CWGC will go on the current name for its online database. If you look up the old IWGC registers the name is not always the same.
Just to confuse matters further there is only one cemetery listed under Rosyth in the CWGC database. Rosyth Old Churchyard.
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=733
CWGC also lists one Dunfermline civilian casualty but does not make it clear which cemetery they are buried in.
POLLOCK, THOMAS
Initials: T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment/Service: Civilian War Dead
Age: 71
Date of Death: 04/11/1940
Additional information: of 76 Main Street, Kingseat. Died at 76 Main Street.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority: DUNFERMLINE, BURGH OF, SCOTLAND
The other Dunfermline cemetery, Dunfermline Abbey Churchyard has been recorded on the War Graves site
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=587
Regards
Adam |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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CWGC have no remit to record or commemorate the place of burial, etc of civilians of WW2 as this is outwith the terms of their Charter. It was, however, agreed that they would record details of these individuals, as submitted by the relevant Reporting Authority, on the Debt of Honour Roll in a seperate record. These are those given for Thomas Pollock under BURGH OF DUNFERMLINE, SCOTLAND.
Quote: | CWGC will go on the current name for its online database. If you look up the old IWGC registers the name is not always the same.
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The names of these cemetries are the same today as in the original 1931 IWGC register.
Dunfermline Cemetery is said to belong (then) to the County Council and Douglas Bank to the Town Council (except for 2.5 acres which had been sold to the Royal Navy). _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
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