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Western Necropolis - Cross of Sacrifice

 
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:28 am    Post subject: Western Necropolis - Cross of Sacrifice Reply with quote

The panels behind the Memorial have Regimental Badges.



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DerekR
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone explain the purpose of the panels with the Regimental badges behind please?
I've only seen something similar once and this is at Heilly Station Cemetery on the Somme where due to the number of men listed on each headstone, the badges had to be left off the headstones. And so the badges were carved into the cemetery wall.
I would have expected the headstones at the Western Necropolis to carry regimental badegs though.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I photographed quite a few stones in this Cemetery while I was there and there's a lot of CWGC stones with just names and no Regimental Badge, a sample of which is below.

I had never seen this type before. I had seen ones with a second or maybe a third name added at the foot of the stone but they usually always had the Badge.

There are dozens like this in the Western Necroplis so I'll be interested to find out too. When I was checking the ones I had photographed off the spreadsheet, I found that not all the names on same stones were listed, yet other times there were names listed as being in the same Lair but not on the appropriate stone (if you follow me!)

I also wondered what the burying sequence would be. Some are pretty close together - e.g. five or six within a month but then others were months and months apart. Then there's the question of how did they know there was going to be multiple burials in the one Lair - were there different regulations to different circumstances? Who decided to plant who where and why?

Questions, questions, questions!

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DerekR
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ann,
Were there graves to the left and right of this headstone?
i.e would the headstone you featured be able to span 5 or 6 different lairs?
Very strange - I would have expected each body to have a unique headstone.
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked up the first name in the CWGC database

Name: DOLEMAN
Initials: A P
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Gordon Highlanders
Unit Text: 1st/6th Bn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 17/09/1918
Service No: S/1939
Additional information: Son of William and Margaret Doleman, of 159, Gardner St., Woodside Rd., Glasgow.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: P. 2582.
Cemetery: GLASGOW WESTERN NECROPOLIS

I also looked up what they had to say about the cemetery

GLASGOW WESTERN NECROPOLIS contains 355 First World War burials, many of them grouped together in Section P, with a small group of Australian graves in Section N. A screen wall near the main entrance carries the badges of the regiments represented in Sections P and H. The 124 Second World War burials are scattered throughout the cemetery, although there are two among the earlier war graves in Section P. Also in this group are two inter-war service burials and two German war graves. GLASGOW CREMATORIUM stands within the Western Necropolis and a memorial in the garden of rest commemorates one servicemen of the First World War and 72 of the Second World War whose remains were cremated there.

I suppose in the case of mass unmarked service plots the CWGC usually commemorated the service personnel with a memorial wall. In this case they must have known exactly where they were buried so a headstone was more appropriate.

Note how the graves with multiple burials are marked in Comely Bank Cemetery in Edinburgh though.



Adam
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek,

Here's a cropped image of some of the stones in Section P.



I don't know whether you'll be able to see the detail but if you can, an example of these multiple names stones are at the left end of the row facing. The stone on the far right is one of the German ones mentioned.

There are also quite a few in Section H and they're side by side also.

Section H is at the bottom of a hill and unfortunately at the moment, you need wellies to get anywhere near them.

As for the Australian Section mentioned in the article Adam posted - I found this bit. (See below) None of the graves in it are on the BWMP's spreadsheet which is quite strange, I don't think it is Section N as none of the other listed graves are in this part. It's quite a small section and is separated by the road on all sides so it's not as if it's one section running into another. I did come across other graves listed on the spreadsheet as Section N, but this is a completely different section. I think I'll go back and pick some brains - there's a wee office beside the Crematorium and if all else fails, and they don't have hand-out maps, I'll take a photo of the big map up on the wall and try to figure what is what and where is where.

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DerekR
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ann,
Great pictures.

I'm at a loss to explain the multiple headstone inscriptions given the disparity of dates of death.
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering why the two German graves had not been moved to Cannock Chase. Here's the explanation from the Cannock Chase Council website

German servicemen from both wars, sailors buried at seaports round the coast of Britain, airmen shot down inland and soldiers, most of them prisoners of war buried in Churchyards throughout the county, were transferred from their burial places to the Chase Military Cemetery between 1964 and 1966. German servicemen buried in British Military Cemeteries and in war grave plots in civilian cemeteries churchyards were not moved

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Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be worth mentioning here the work of The Volksbund Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge and comparing the numbers of men and women commemorated to our own equivalent - the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

This is an extract from the Enlish language page of their website

The Volksbund carries out its work in Europe and North Africa in the framework of bilateral agreements. It now looks after about 827 military cemeteries in 45 countries with about 2 million dead. The diverse work of the association is carried out today by almost 10,000 honorary and 536 full-time employees.

After the political upheaval in eastern Europe the Volksbund was able to start its work in the countries in the former eastern bloc as well, in which nearly three million German soldiers were killed in World War II, nearly twice as many as the numbers buried in military cemeteries in western Europe. This task imposes great difficulties on the Volksbund.
Many of the over 100,000 burial grounds are extremely difficult to find, or have been destroyed, built on or plundered. In spite of this, in the last few years 300 cemeteries dating from World War II and 190 facilities from World War I in eastern, central and south-eastern Europe have been reconstructed or rebuilt. About 32 cemeteries are at present under construction or being repaired. About 481.000 bodies have been buried in new graves.


A huge task for this organisation.

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apanderson wrote:

As for the Australian Section .. None of the graves in it are on the BWMP's spreadsheet which is quite strange


Anne

I'm sure the BWMP only covers British CWGC headstones. Canadian, Australian, South African and others are all covered by other projects so would not be listed.

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Adam
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam,

Possibly in theory they're only supposed to cover British War Graves but I've been asked on more than a few occasions to try and find New Zealanders, Australians etc., - usually successfully! Very Happy

Perhaps they simply just forward the details on to whichever organisation.

I thought it was rather nice to find that particular German grave to the two men nestling in beside all the other ones. The names on the stone are Willy Feld, died 25.8.1917 and Erich Jagusch died 28.8.1917.

Anne
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anne park
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: Alexander Peter Doleman GH Reply with quote

Alexander Peter Doleman L/Cpl S/1939 6th Gordon Highlanders b Barony, Lanarkshire e Glasgow Age 20 Died of Wounds Home 17/09/1918 Son of William and Margaret Doleman, of 159, Gardner St., Woodside Rd., Glasgow. 1901 Census: 11 Nuneaton St: Bridgeton. Glasgow City Roll of Honour: 159 Garden St; Soldiers Effects: Mo: Margaret. Soldiers Will 3 Pages. Glasgow Western Necropolis U. K. Glasgow Western P 2582 The Scotsman 02-11-18 P7: Glasgow
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