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KOF
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Scottish Borders
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:20 pm Post subject: Cowdenbeath War Memorial mistake |
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I've been doing some research about the me of the 7th Royal Highlander (Black Watch) in WW1. One of the men who I've been researching is Sgt Henry Baptie who was killed at Beaumont Hamel on the 13th November 1916. He lived in Cowdenbeath, so his name should be on the war memorial. However it isn't (sort of), but it was.
I've been in contact with his great grandson, who lives in Canada, who sent me a photo (taken in 1990) of the Cowdenbeath war memorial clearly showing H Baptie's name on it. However, the listing of the memorial on this site shows the name as R Baptie.
Based on what I've read the memorial was renovated at some point, but some one has made a monumental mistake during the renovation by replacing an H with an R.
My question is, who the heck do I have to speak to to get this mistake rectified? Anybody got any suggestions?
If someone could amend the listing of his name on the Cowdenbeath war Memorial thread, then that would be a great start to remembering this man properly.
His details are -
Sgt Henry Baptie, Reg No 1571, (B Company) 7th Btn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch).
Died 13/11/16 Buried at Mailly Wood Cemetery, Mailly-Maillet
Thanks in advance for all help.
Cheers
Colin |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:12 am Post subject: |
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I think what's happened is that the letter has fallen off and as only the 'plug-holes' would remain, who-ever was responsible for any maintenance, has guessed what letter should have been there. (The receiving holes for B, H, R and N being the same.)
This type of 'add-on' lettering was usually made of lead and as it's a very soft metal, tends to fall off eventually.
It wouldn't be a big job to get this fixed and the other missing letters hopefully updated at the same time.
Anne |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I have reported this to the War Memorials Trust so hopefully they have some contacts that can take a look at this as well.
\Paul |
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KOF
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Scottish Borders
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Hi all!
Thanks for updating the list of names.
I've already been in touch with the Heritage team at Fife Council, but it would appear that they're only responsible for keeping it clean and maintained, not actually have any control over what is written on the memorial even if it's wrong. The very nice chap I spoke to said it'd probably be someone from the local area, within the Fife Council area, that would have that authority to get this mistake changed. ie From the Cowdenbeath Ward.
Anyhoo, he said he'd ask around and see if he could find the appropriate contact details for me. Not heard back yet, so thought I'd try every other avenue I could think of in the meantime.
Yes, Anne, I think that's what probably happened too and you're right it wouldn't be terribly difficult to put this right.
Maybe there should be some protocols drawn up for renovating war memorials, so this kind of thing doesn't happen again?
Doh! I should have thought about the War Mem Trust! Thanks for that, Paul. Here's hoping.
I'll post up what I find out, so everyone's kept up to date with the progress of what's happening.
Cheers
Colin |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
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KOF wrote: |
Yes, Anne, I think that's what probably happened too and you're right it wouldn't be terribly difficult to put this right.
Maybe there should be some protocols drawn up for renovating war memorials, so this kind of thing doesn't happen again?
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A protocol exists - Historic Scotland already has an excellent guide http://conservation.historic-scotland.gov.uk/war-memorials-short-guide.pdf to which some of us contributed and chapter 3 covers this problem I think.
As to Fife council not having authority to correct errors, simply wrong I'm afraid. http://www.warmemorials.org/uploads/publications/121.pdf points out they have the power to spend money on correcting any error or omission although it does not oblige them to do so. So they certainly have the authority to fix it. If they don't wish to then I think that would be a matter for the press and public to put pressure on them.
\Paul |
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KOF
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Scottish Borders
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Paul,
Good to see there is actually a protocol for this, though it seems something, or someone, buggered up when this memorial was being renovated.
Ah, the wonders of bureaucracy! It's all about finding the right person to actually put pen to paper to get this sorted.
Well, I've started on the next push already and contacted several councillors in Cowdenbeath and the local MSP. Hopefully it won't be too long before I get some replies.
If nothing comes forth from this then I'm more than up for involving press and public to put pressure on. However, it's only a few hours since I've left messages, so will give them a reasonable time to respond.
I'll keep the forum up to date with what I hear back.
Cheers
Colin |
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Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
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KOF
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Scottish Borders
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, I've now been put in touch with some one at the council who can actually help remedy this. They've had a visual inspection of the memorial done and seem to agree the inscription for H BAPTIE is incorrect on it. Currently they're in contact with some one who is researching the Cowdenbeath War Memorial to make sure there haven't been any other names missed from it before any work is carried out. ie I think they're going to wait and get it all sorted out at one time.
That's about it for now. Will keep folk up to date on the progress as it happens.
Cheers
Colin |
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apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Happy to hear that it's a step in the right direction!
Anne |
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KOF
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Scottish Borders
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Just a wee update on progress.
The work to amend H Baptie's listing on the memorial should be happening in the next week.
Will post again when I get the final confirmation.
Almost there now!
Cheers
Colin |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Nice one. Thanks for keeping us updated.
Thanks
Adam |
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KOF
Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 15 Location: Scottish Borders
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have received confirmation by email today that the mis-remembrance of Sgt Henry Baptie, Reg No 1571, (B Company) 7th Btn Royal Highlanders (Black Watch), on the Cowdenbeath War Memorial has now been amended.
Welcome back H BAPTIE.
Thanks to all for advice and words of support.
Today is a good day today!
Cheers
Colin
Oh, I don't have a photo of the amendment, as yet. Hopefully I'll be passing by Cowdenbeath in the next couple months or so, so will take photos then and add them to the Cowdenbeath Memorial thread. |
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anne park Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 21200 Location: Aberdeen
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: Skene War Memorial got it wrong.... |
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When Skene War Memorial got it wrong they arranged a stonecutter to remove the name....just another option! _________________ Researching WWI info from Aberdeenshire, Banffshire, Kincardineshire & Morayshire. |
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sydorkan
Joined: 19 Jul 2015 Posts: 1 Location: Sarnia, ON Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: Cowdenbeath War Memorial |
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Thank You Colin!
Just a quick message to personally thank and acknowledge Colin for all his hard work and dedication to having help get my Great Grandfather's name corrected on the memorial. It is a great feeling knowing there are complete strangers out there willing to help. It is my hope that when my daughters are older we can visit the memorial and pay tribute to Henry.
My most sincere appreciation,
Great Grandson of Henry Baptie
Andrew Charles Sydorko
Sarnia Legion Pipe Band
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada |
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