The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: JOHN MARSHALL IRVING

On Auchtergaven W.M. is recorded;
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=282&highlight=auchtergaven

Mar Eng John Marshall Irving P.O.W

No match on CWGC. I 'think' I have him in the 1901 census an app. Mechanical Engineer boarding in Govan. He was born at West Yell, Shetland.

No deaths on Scotlands People. Tried marriages to see if he wed a local lass - neg. Any thoughts on the way forward with this chap ?

Mark

john burnett · Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 790 Location: Fife

Mark,
when was memorial erected? Assume he died prior to this date.
Local papers any help.
I can imagine this surname being spelt in a variety of ways - IRVINE, IRVIN, IRWIN, IRWINE

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject:

Re. name spelling there is a J. IRVINE commemorsted South Yell

suzebain · Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 39

Only birth matching on Scotlands People is:

1883, IRVING JOHN MARSHALL, AUCHTERGAVEN /PERTH

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject:

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject:

I downloaded John's B.C. He was born at Prieston Rd, Bankfoot, 11th August 1883. His father was William Irving, a Lay Missionary living at South Yell! Mother was Ann Marshall - they were married in August 1881 at Liverpool.

So I believe that my earlier post of J. Irvine on S Yell Memorial was correct. Obviously John gives Yell as his pob in the 1901 census.

Onwards ever onwards !

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject:

No signs of a death (Irving with soundex + Mother's m.s Marshall) on Scotlands People

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject:

I'm assuming POW is Prince of Wales:

Launched at Chatham on the 25th March 1902, served in the Mediterranean until May 1906 when she returned to the commissioned reserve fleet at Portsmouth for refit. Returning the the Mediterranean in September 1906 as flagship of the rear admiral until November 1908 when she was transferred to the Atlantic Fleet as C-in-c Flagship. In May 1912 she became flagship to the vice admiral of the 3rd Battle Squadron, 1st fleet then at Portsmouth as flagship of the Rear Admiral of 2nd Fleet. between 1912 until the outbreak of war in 1914 she served with the 5th Battle Squadron. from August 1914 served on Channel patrols, transferring to the Dardanelles in May2 1915. Including the Anzac landing of the 25th April 1915. She transferred to the Adriatic on the 12th May 1915 until January 1918 serving with her three sister ships. On returning she was reduced to harbour service eventually being sold and scrapped 21st September 1921.

No answer for Irving though.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject:

On Ancestry - 1901 census shows John's family still at Yell. His father, Minister of the Free Church - born Dumfriesshire. His mother a native of Bankfoot.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject:

BLAIRGOWRIE ADVERTISER: 10.04.1915
BANKFOOT NATIVE DIES AS RESULT OF GERMAN TREATMENT WHILE A PRISONER

Mr John M. Irving, marine engineer, son of the late Rev. W. Irving, Bankfoot, died on March 16th, in a hospital at Berlin, while he was a civil prisoner of war. It appears the lung trouble which proved fatal was brought on by the treatment meted out to him as an interned prisoner. With five other prisoners he had slept in a stable stall on bags of straw. His mother resides in Glasgow.

*
I was wrong P.O.W wasn't Prince of Wales but Prisoner of War. Anyone know if there are records which may take this research further ?

DelBoy · Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:18 am Post subject:

A biography of Irving from the Herald.
Although a civilian could he be considered for CWGC inclusion due to being a POW in Germany?

Derek.

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Derek

This man cannot qualify for war dead status and be commemorated by CWGC since he was civilian who died of illness. He was not a POW, but was an interned civilian.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

DelBoy · Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:24 am Post subject:

Ok Jim, thanks for that. I wasn't sure where the line was in his case.

Cheers,
Derek.