The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Hello All,
Sutherland William, Gordon Highlanders, Kirknewton and East Calder War Memorial
CWGC shows a few Pte William Sutherland, Gordon Highlanders, died WW1, however I have been unable to link them to the Kirknewton and East Calder area of West Lothian(then Midlothian).
Looking at burial records for Kirknewton and East Calder, I came across a William Sutherland, buried early January 1915 in a family grave. I found the death certificate of this William Sutherland on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk He died 6th January 1915 in Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh, aged 17. Cause of death was “Acute Appendicitis, General Peritonitis”.
There are discharge papers for a William Sutherland (home address for discharge papers and death certificate are the same). Discharge papers show Pte William Sutherland, S/7131, 3rd Gordon Highlanders, enlisted 14 November 1914, Edinburgh and discharged 11 December 1914, Aberdeen. Reason given for discharge is defective vision. A few weeks after the discharge, he died. Both Death and Discharge Papers also show trade/occupation as cooper and father is named as James Sutherland. William Sutherland gave his age on enlistment as 19 yrs (or is it a badly written 17?) 151 days, but I know it wasn't unusual for a soldier to say he was older.
So, my question is, although this William Sutherland was discharged after a few weeks and is not on the CWGC or SDGW, would he be remembered on the Kirknewton and East Calder Memorial? Another soldier, who was discharged and then died(See Robert Morrison Russell on KNEC memorial thread), was not remembered on the memorial.
Thanks for your help
Margaret

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Margaret

It appears you have proved this is the same man. He could not qualify as a war dead since he was discharged for a reason other than the cause of his death. Additionally during the month he was in, there would have been a option to discharge him under King's Regulations.

That said, how the local war memorial commitee looked upon his service and death in respect of putting names on the memorial was something which they alone were entitled to decide upon. There was no " rules " which they were required to adopt.

If you can send me a link to the service papers it would be of interest.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

spoons · Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject:

I'm afraid the answer is, it all depends. Each Town, Village, Parish etc set up its own War Memorial Committee and it was up to them to set the rules and circumstances that people would be included. Some included women and others did not, one local memorial includes a death as late as 1925 but I have certainly seen men listed on memorials in similar circumstances. The only way to know for sure would be if the minutes of the War Memorial Committee have survived or if newspaper reports of the unveiling gave any details of the individuals listed.
For my money, I would be pretty sure you have the right man.

\Paul

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

No wonder I could not find his record, his number is S/7313.

He was found to be medically unfit upon medical inspection within three months and discharged under KR as " unlikely to become an efficient soldier ". This is not the same as a medical discharge.

I can easily understand why the War Memorial Commitee excluded him. I could appreciate him being listed had he been a T.F. man or had been overseas.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Jim - Sorry re number, brain and fingers not moving together( that's my excuse!). Thanks for info re medical inspection within 3 months, didn't know that.
Paul- Local news article re unveiling gives names and regiment - I posted this info on Kirknewton thread. Scotsman article is only a short para and doesn't list men. I'll look at the local newspaper around his death and see if there's any info, even a death notice. Cemetery is not too far away so a trip to look at the family grave is on the agenda. The family grave of the other soldier, Pte Russell, gives his regiment etc although he died as a civilian.
Thanks again folks.
Margaret

spoons · Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:55 am Post subject:

When checking a gravestone, I always check the ones either side and a few more around as I find that graves are often in family groups.

\Paul

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Thanks Paul. Will do.
West Lothian Family History Society produced burial/lair records for East Calder cemetery so I know his sister Sophia and brother George are buried there too. There's a James(father or brother) but can't get the ages to correspond. Gravestone may give more info.
Margaret