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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: 1911 census |
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The 1911 census for England and Wales is online from today at http://fmpbsol.1911census.co.uk/
some counties are not yet available, searching is free but downloading costs £3 per page!
According to the Guardian, privacy laws mean that Scotland's returns will not be published early so we have to wait until 2011
\Paul |
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Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Not Scotland but this release in England also covers:
Royal Navy (ships at sea at time of census)
Military Establishments (overseas)
Regards
Adam |
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DerekR Moderator
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 3013 Location: Hawick, Scotland
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I am desperate to be able to see Scotland's 1911 census but I believe that it is correct that we should wait until 2011 to see it.
If nothing else, Scotland has a damn fine historical and geneological archive that is the envy of the world and we should do our best to uphold this tradition.
However, I will balance this statement by saying that on the 27th March 2011 the General Register Office computer will crash under the avalanche of desperate people. _________________
Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: 1911 census - Scotland |
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The need for us to wait till 2011 in Scotland is due to assurances given in 1911, as is the case today, that the details given would be witheld for 100 years. I am sure it was the first Census completed by the head of the household, rather than an Enumerator, and this was to ensure they gave accurate information. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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ADP
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 467 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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The 1911 census (England and Wales) was released early under the Freedom of Information Act. The 1911 census (Scotland) was exempt from the FOI act, so we have to wait until the end of the 100 year's closure.
ADP |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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DerekR Moderator
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 3013 Location: Hawick, Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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DelBoy wrote: | I found it interesting that the England and Wales census was scanned and compiled by a Dundee company!
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I hope they don't get it mixed up with Oor Wullie and the Broons. Jings ma boab. _________________
Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear. |
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Roxy Moderator - Morayshire
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 510 Location: Elgin, Moray
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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According to a chap on another forum (he was one of the folks that applied for the details of the 1911 census under FOI) that - at least in England and Wales - there was never any assurance given in 1911 that the information would remain 'secret' for 100 years.
I have been lead to believe that 'the 100 year rule' was only instigated in 1966!
Roxy _________________ Remembering my ggf, Pte Thomas Roberts, 10 SR, killed 25 Sep 15 at Loos.
Also remembering Flt Lt Al Squires and CXX/3 killed 2 Sep 06 in Afghanistan. |
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spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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The way I heard it was a little different. In 1911 people in England/Wales and Scotland were all given the 100 year undertaking but that had no basis in law. In 1920 they passed census laws to guarantee the 100 year rule (don't know if this was for England/Wales only or also included Scotland). The 1911 census was therefore not covered by the legislation but the 1921 census will guarantee 100 years closure. The government in Westminster therefore had no legal exemption when an FOI request was made. There are so many fundamental differences with Scots laws and I don't know which applies, perhaps the FOI doesn't give the same rights, perhaps no-one applied this side of the border or maybe any census legislation was made retroactive to include the 1911 census.
\Paul |
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ADP
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 467 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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According to Jock Tamson's Bairns: a history of the records in the General Register Office for Scotland by Cecil Sinclair, the censuses from 1841 to 1871 were opened in 1923, for searching. At that time the searches had to be done by the Registrar General's staff. In 1955, the 1881 and 1891 censuses were opened, and the public were granted direct access to all of the 1841 to 1891 censuses. The 100 year closure was decided upon in 1974, bringing Scotland in line with England.
ADP |
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Roxy Moderator - Morayshire
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 510 Location: Elgin, Moray
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Further to my last, the chap responsible for the FOI ruling indicated that the 1920 Census Act allow no access at all to future census information!
Third party information; I'm not clever enough to have found this out myself!
Roxy _________________ Remembering my ggf, Pte Thomas Roberts, 10 SR, killed 25 Sep 15 at Loos.
Also remembering Flt Lt Al Squires and CXX/3 killed 2 Sep 06 in Afghanistan. |
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Roxy Moderator - Morayshire
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 510 Location: Elgin, Moray
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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He also pointed out that the 1841 and 1851 census were made available to the public in 1912 and the 1891 Scottish census was made available in 1957.
Roxy _________________ Remembering my ggf, Pte Thomas Roberts, 10 SR, killed 25 Sep 15 at Loos.
Also remembering Flt Lt Al Squires and CXX/3 killed 2 Sep 06 in Afghanistan. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: Census 1911 |
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I gave details of this earlier
Interestingly, the Census Act 1920 (nor the 2000 (Scotland) ammendment) makes no mention of the details being released after a specified period. Neither does the Act state they are never to be released into the Public Domain. I suspect the closure period of 100 years come from other legislation which also governs the release of Census documents.
The 100 year closure is clearly in place as Census details have been released every 10 years and are available for inspection since the 1950's.
If people gave personal information and expected it to be closed for 100 years that is what should happen regardles of where they lived. We live in Scotland and are governed by Scots Law.
It is only the action of modern day interference (FOIA) which has created the change outside Scotland.
I am not against FOIA, far from it, but in this case I believe the outcome was wrong. The 100 year closure should have been respected.
Thank goodness we have Scots Law. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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Roxy Moderator - Morayshire
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 510 Location: Elgin, Moray
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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The 100 year closure rule confuses me. I can download a marriege certificate for anyone married (in Scotland - not sure about England) prior to 1934 and access details of them, their age, occupation, place of residence and their parents names, whether or not they are still alive and mother's maiden name. This could be applicable to individuals born in 1918 and contains similar information as the census. I am still not convinced that individuals completing the 1911 census were informed that their details would remain 'closed' until 2011. Neither am I sure that many would have cared.
Still, this is the subject of Scottish Law and it is likely that we will have to wait another 2 years. I can hold on
Roxy _________________ Remembering my ggf, Pte Thomas Roberts, 10 SR, killed 25 Sep 15 at Loos.
Also remembering Flt Lt Al Squires and CXX/3 killed 2 Sep 06 in Afghanistan. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: 1911 Census |
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I too can wait until 2011. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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