The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Captain Frank Smith is the first name on the Kirknewton War Memorial, West Lothian(used to be Midlothian). He is not on the CWGC site and I have searched the London Gazette where there are obviously lots of
F. Smith, Frank Smith, Francis Smith. I also bought a book naming officers who died in the Great War, however no success. Kirknewton War Memorial was dedicated on 19 June 1921 so Frank must have died before then. I understand he may have died of wounds. My research on Kirknewton War Memorial has been ongoing for about four years and Frank is one of four I have still to find. I haven't come across him in the Midlothian Advertiser either. Any help or suggestions really appreciated. Thank you.

Adam Brown · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject:

MagsD

Great to have you post here. With an MC his death is presumably post-1915 and if he died before June 1921 it narrows down the date.

Perhaps he had another first name and everyone knew him as Frank?

Why not post his name and the other names you are looking for on the Kirknewton thread and we can see if we can help with the others.

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=438

Kind regards

Adam

Adam Brown · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject:

Having a quick look at CWGC with some filters on. ie. a Captain called Smith in the RGA with an MC comes up with this man:

SMITH, CEDRIC HARRY
Rank:Captain
Date of Death:31/10/1917
Age:28
Regiment/Service:Royal Garrison Artillery, 229th Siege Bty.
Awards:M C
Grave ReferenceXII. D. 16.
CemeteryTHE HUTS CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Thomas Edward and Emmeline Smith, of St. Arvans, Chepstow, Mon.

Or how about this man. It isn't the right regiment.

SMITH, RODERIC FRANKLYN
Rank:Captain
Date of Death:28/03/1918
Age:26
Regiment/Service:King's Shropshire Light Infantry
6th Bn.
Awards:M C and Bar
Panel ReferencePanel 60.
MemorialPOZIERES MEMORIAL
Additional Information:
Son of the Rev. Franklyn George Smith and Mrs. Marie Laurence Smith, of Wesley House, Marazion, Cornwall.

Just a couple of suggestions by hunting on CWGC using filters.

Kind regards

Adam

Adam Brown · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject:

I'm not suggesting that this Frank Smith is your man but the additional comments are worth posting here:

SMITH, FRANCIS JOHN GEOFFRY
Rank:Captain
Date of Death:29/07/1918
Age:32
Regiment/Service:Army Service Corps. No. 3 Coy. 59th Div.
Grave Reference H. 11.
Cemetery ST. HILAIRE CEMETERY EXTENSION, FREVENT
Additional Information: Son of Sir William and Lady Smith, of Langley Mill, Notts. Threw up a good position and joined the army in the early months of the war.

spoons · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject:

Possibly this man:

SMITH, F H C D
Rank:Second Lieutenant
Date of Death:10/12/1917
Regiment/Service:Royal Garrison Artillery
52nd Siege Bty.
Grave ReferenceIV. G. 2.
CemeteryBULLY-GRENAY COMMUNAL CEMETERY, BRITISH EXTENSION
Additional Information:

He transferred from the Durham Light Infantry to RGA on 2nd July 1917. No trace of an MC though.

But my favourite would be:

Lt F Smith MC 4th Highland (Mountain) Bde, retired 18th June 1921 as having reached the age limit and was granted the rank of Captain. London Gazette 17th June 1921. More work needed to show his connection to the area and why he is listed on the memorial (died shortly after retiring perhaps?).

\Paul

Adam Brown · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject:

spoons · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject:

There's a man on my local memorial who did not die in the war - name entered in error and it has never been removed. Given that the LG entry was actually the day before he retired, it could well have been sent to print a month or two previously and he could have died in the interim, dare I suggest, possibly at his own hand? The other option is there were 2 Capt F Smith in the RGA with MCs and we have only found one of them.

\Paul

anne park

I looked at my dababase and found a Francis Johnston Smith
Rank 2nd Lieutenant
Regiment 7th Battalion Gordon Highlanders
Biography Son of Charles C. Smith, Compositor; born Aberdeen, 25 November 1883 ; educated Robert Gordon's College ; student in Law, 1906-08 ; served with the firm of Messrs. L. Mackinnon & Son, Advocates, Aberdeen. On 25 January 1915 he enlisted in the 4th Gordons, was later attached to the 6th Battalion, and received his training at Aberdeen and Ripon. He attained commissioned rank on 5 August 1916, and was posted to the 7th Gordons, but served in France with the 6th Battalion. Smith was awarded the Military Cross in March 1917. On 16 May 1917 he fell in action near Arras, leading his men in a counter attack which succeeded in re-establishing the position of the Battalion. As a student of Law, Smith gave promise of a brilliant future, his shrewdness, tenacity and keenness in debate marked him as one who would go far in his profession ; and the determination which he displayed in his endeavour to join the Army after a serious illness, characterized the whole of his civil arid military career.
Honours Military Cross Date of Death 16 May 1917. Buried at Brown's Copse Cemetery, Roeux, Plot 1, Row C, Grave 39.
As he was a graduate of Aberdeen University I thought he may have worked away from Aberdeen at some point. I Just sent this so you could see his info and discount it.

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Thanks Folks, I have already found and looked at the men posted.
Francis Johnston Smith is related to the wife of the minister of Kirknewton at that time - Dr Gardiner. Dr Gardiner was part of the fundraising committee and dedicated the war memorial. However, FJS was a 2nd Lt, not Captain. Listed in the officer's book I have as 2nd Lt.
Roderic Franklyn Smith was born in Spain where his father was a missionary.
I also found the transfer to the Highland Mountain Battery and I, too, rejected it.
1915 Valuation Roll shows an Archibald Smith, Police Constable, living in Kirknewton. He had a son Frank.
The nephew of a previous minister, Henry Wallis Smith was Frank. However, the family in America only know he died in Africa and have no date. Incidentally, Frank's brother, Henry Crozier Smith has his war letters online.
James Parker Smith M.P. was staying at Kirknewton. His son is Wilmot Babbington Parker Smith( on Kirknewton Memorial)so don't think there is a link there. This Frank Smith has been the "bane of my life" for a long time now. Kirknewton Memorial tends to put middle names as initials, however I know I can't assume all names are the same. Thanks again.

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

It is quite possible the rank of Captain is wrong.

A Lt. Frank Edward Corbett Douglas Smith MC was demobilised from the RGA in November 1919 to a London address. He was still alive in March 1920 and so could have died before the memorial was completed.
Maybe you are already aware of him.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

spoons · Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject:

Interesting, I wouldn't discount FJ Smith just because he is shown as 2Lt instead of Captain. CWGC mostly seems to show a man's substantive rank, officers and men often carried an acting rank one higher and possibly a field promotion one higher than that. I have found several Lt shown as Capt and LCpl shown as Cpl or Sgt on local memorials. Although we have seen regiments wrong and medals incorrectly ascribed, I have never seen both. I usually work on the assumption that if 2 things are wrong, it is the wrong man (excepting rank which may be higher as I said).

The son of a police constable was less likely to be commissioned - although field commissions did happen, the class structure of the time more often ruled against it.

I presume that the minutes of the local War Memorial Committee have not survived? It would be nice if they were in the hands of a local history group or the reference section of a local library.

I would expect the death of an officer to be reported in a local newspaper and possibly also a national one. The Royal Artillery Museum might be able to help? A final thought, is there a memorial or roll of honour in the parish church? If so, this might have further information.

If I seem keen to solve this, the fact that I used to own a house in Kirknewton may have something to do with it.

Good luck

\Paul

spoons · Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Frank Smith M.C. RGA

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Hello All,
Jim - I had looked at FECD Smith, however found him in London Gazette, 13 Aug 1940(unless it's a son?) and couldn't find a link to Scotland
Paul- Will ask an old stalwart of the village re the minutes. However, we have had many chats as he has a copy of the booklet I produced to commemorate the 90th anniversary. Booklet was updated for Remembrance Sunday 2011. Ongoing is my trawl through the Midlothian Advertiser as I am putting "meat on the bones" of the men. A name doesn't tell you anything.
Need to go back and look at the link with Margaret Smith, wife of Dr Gardiner, Minister of Kirknewton. One question, FJS was in the Gordon Highlanders, infantry, when Frank is listed as artillery.
Thanks again.

Margaret

MagsD · Joined: 10 Mar 2012 Posts: 171 Location: West Lothian

Hello All,

It is a couple of years since I first posted re Frank Smith.

Found this on an army records site. It has the wording:

First Name: F.
Surname: Smith
Nationality: British
Information: (Acting Capt 29 June 1915). Officer serving with Special reserve of Officers, Territorial Force. Reserve of Officers or holding a temporary commission who has War service.
Rank: Captain
Military Cross

"Officer serving with Special reserve of officers. Reserve of officers or holding a temporary commission who has War service."
"Royal Artillery Territorial Force(Royal Garrison Artillery)"

Service: British Army
Regiment: Royal Artillery Territorial Force (Royal Garrison Artillery)
Seniority Date: 01-Jun-16

The information source was the Army List 1918.

Rank, M.C. and R.G.A. seem to fit the Frank I am looking for. Any information or explanation would be helpful, especially a guide to where I could get more details to confirm(or not!)

Thanks,
Mags