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Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH
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Stewartry



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 267
Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH Reply with quote

From another thread posted by muiravonsidedave (David):

Falkirk Herald report 30 - 12- 1914
Mathew Brown PTE 7th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders drowned December 1914
Falkirk Soldier drowned
When returning at night from Purbright (?) camp to resume duty as a railway patrol at Purbright Junction, Private Mathew Brown, National Reservist, attached to the 7th Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, in closing the lock gates at the canal fell into the water and drowned. He was a pipe moulder at Callander Ironworks, Falkirk, aged 48, and had previously served as a Regular in the Regiment to which he was attached. A coronor jury on Saturday returned a verdict of accidental death.

I can't find this man on the CWGC register, but his service file survives in the WO 363 set and states 'Found drowned in Pirbright Canal' on 25 Dec 1914. His death is registered in 4th qtr 1914 in Guildford, Matthew Brown, age 48.

Private 2648 Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH
7 Silver Row, Falkirk

Stuart
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DelBoy



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: pre-research check Reply with quote

I've submitted a few similar cases where men drowned in pitch black conditions into canals on guard duty early in the war.

I may be a good idea to check with Terry from the IFTCP to make sure he's not already in the pile of cases awaiting checking by the Army museum? That way nobody's wasting their time.

Derek.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH Reply with quote

Stuart

I will make inquiries into this one for you and revert if we don't know about him. The name seems to ring a bell with me.

UPDATE

IFCP are not aware of him. Do you want me to send in an initial case on your behalf.

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Stewartry



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Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim,

Yes, please. I assume that you have downloaded his WO 363 file and that the IFCP will order the death certificate. I wonder if he was buried in Surrey or his body brought back up to Falkirk for the funeral?

Thanks for your help.

Stuart
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: 2648 Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH Reply with quote

Stuart

The DC may not be required in this case, the record confirms his death and that he was embodied.

It is difficult to know where he might be buried or if the grave can be found. A check of the local Falkirk papers may shed some light.

Although he died in Surrey he enlisted at Falkirk but he gave his NOK as a woman in Middlesborough - mother / sister ?

Well done in finding him.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something's not right somewhere........!

I downloaded his Service Papers and had a nosey and sure enough, his address is listed as 7 Silver Row, Falkirk.

Regiment: Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, No. 2648, age listed as 47 years old making his year of birth around 1867. Drowned 25th December 1914.

There is a Matthew Brown listed on Stirling Civic Memorial.

On Stirling Burgh Roll of Honour, this Matthew Brown is listed as a Corporal in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders and address listed as 4 Barn Road, Stirling.

The 1915 Valuation Roll for 7 Silver Row, Falkirk lists a 'Widow Jane Brown' living there.

But ....... on raking around some more I found this!



So, what's going on here at all?

Anne Confused
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWGC:
Rank: Lance Corporal
Service No: S/13267
Date of Death: 10/10/1916
Regiment/Service: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders), 2nd Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 25 and 63.
Memorial: BASRA MEMORIAL

SNWM:
Surname: BROWN
Forename: Matthew
Rank: L Cpl
Service number: S/13267
Place of birth: Lauriston Stirlingshire (should be Laurieston)
Date of death: 10 October 1916
Theatre of death: Persian Gulf
Cause of death: Killed in action
SNWM roll: THE BLACK WATCH (ROYAL HIGHLANDERS)
Unit name: Unknown Unit attached to THE BLACK WATCH ROYAL HIGHLANDERS
Other detail: 2nd Bn. formerly 1439 A. & S.H.

There is no Matthew Brown listed on Laurieston Civic Memorial.

And to confuse matters a wee bit more, the following are the details from SDGW:

Name: Matthew Brown
Birth Place: Lauriston, Stirlingshire
Death Date: 10 Oct 1915
Death Location: Persian Gulf
Enlistment Location: Stirling
Rank: L/Corporal
Regiment: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
Battalion: 2nd Battalion
Number: S/13267
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Asiatic Theatres
Comments: Formerly 1439, A. & S. High
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthew Brown, age 23, Coal Miner, son of James Brown, Carter and Jane Brown nee Boyd married
Isabella Grant Duncan, age 19, Domestic Servant, daughter of Charles Duncan, Carter and Mary Duncan nee Moffat
On 11th October 1907 at No. 12 Newhouse (St. Ninians, Stirling).

12 Newhouse was Matthew's address, Isabella's was Sauchieburn, St. Nininans.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've gone through the Census Returns and it looks like there has been a mix-up of some sort.

It 'appears' to be as follows:

James, born c1857 and Matthew Brown, born c1865, ages 14 and 6 respectively, were the sons of Michael and Annie Brown.

In 1871, the family were living at South Back Row, Falkirk Landward.

In 1881, Matthew now aged 15 was still living with his parents at Graham's Dyke Street, Falkirk Landward.

By 1881, James Brown had married Jane Boyd and they were living at Grange Cottages, Falkirk.

In 1884, Matthew Brown, son of James & Jane was born in Falkirk.

By 1891, James & Jane Brown and their family were living at Dundee Court - Matthew was age 7.

By 1901, By 1891, James & Jane Brown and their family were living at 2 Kirk Wynd - Matthew was age 17.

So far, I have been unable to find Matthew's uncle Matthew in either 1891 or 1901.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1911 there were no Matthew Brown's between the ages of 30 - 40 (this would be 'Uncle Matthew') in Stirlingshire, 21 Scotland wide.

Also, strangely, I don't see another Matthew anywhere in Stirlingshire between the ages of 23 - 32. 25 Scotland wide. (Matthew junior would be around 27)

Anne
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Kenneth Morrison



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anne - I know what I said in my e-mail to you but.....
On the 1911 census in the Falkirk Corporation Lodging House is a Matthew Brown age 46, Single, an Iron Moulder born in Laurieston.

I wonder if he (Uncle Matthew) is missing from earlier census as he was in the Army and that his nephew (Matthew) was serving in 1911????
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: 2648 Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH Reply with quote

Uncle and nephew would make sense. It is a pity that the English DC's do not give the details of the parents.

Quote:
I wonder if he (Uncle Matthew) is missing from earlier census as he was in the Army .......


2648 served with the 1st A & SH and we know he had two medals for service during the SA war.
In September 1914 his NOK was a woman at a Middlesborough address.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well found Ken! I wonder why he didn't appear in my searches in 1911?

Still, never mind!

Are we happy that they were uncle and nephew then?

I'm not going to look any further just now - I'm a wee bit tired of the 'goings-on' in Stirling and thereabouts these days.

All I'll say is there was an awful lot of 'keeping things in the family' which has led me a right merry dance - eh Ken?

Anne Laughing
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: 2648 Matthew Brown, 7th A&SH Reply with quote

The DC adds the following-

Dead body found in Basingstoke Canal on 25th December 1914, Mathew Brown, age - about 48 years - National Reservist attached to 7th Reserve Battalion A & S Highlanders formerly a moulder residing at Falkirk, Scotland.
Accidentally drowned having fallen into canal on 20th December 1914.

Could he be buried in the Falkirk area?
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In Flanders fields.

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apanderson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's not in any Stirling Cemeteries - I've already made enquiries there.

I'll pop into Falkirk Cemetery Office this week and ask them to have a wee look.

He's not in Camelon (Falkirk) Cemetery as I have a copy of the Interments Register which I believe is complete.

He may have been buried in England though?

Anne
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