View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Andrew Sunter
Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Location: Rosyth, Fife
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: Andrew Sunter - Elie war memorial |
|
|
Hi, I'm not sure where to start so here goes. i came across this site through a tag on the photo sharing website flickr. I noticed my name on a tag and it took me into the photo of the Elie memorial. on the memorial, and the reason I am on here, is a namesake of mine. Now Elie is in Fife and I am a Fifer born and bred and I am wondering if the Andrew Sunter on the memorial is in anyway related to me, but i dont have a clue where or how to find out. the reason I think we may be related is that the surname is fairly unusual and also that his forenames Andrew and Alexander (i found out from another site that the middle initial on the memorial is wrong and that his middlename is Alexander) crop up throughout my family history as far back as i know. my grandfather was Alexander, I have an uncle called Alexander, my brother's middlename is Alexander and so on
Anyone know where i might begin to find out if we are related? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
spoons
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
welcome to the project.
normal advice is to do your own family tree working backwards and then use the 19th century censuses to see if you share any ancestors. you might try a shortcut for an unusual surname and look up all of those listed on the 1901 census - you should be able to find the man on the memorial, perhaps as a child and if living with parents they may be your relatives also
MIC or service record (if it exists) may give his next of kin, also try CWGC, SNWM and SDGW. let us know if you need info on what these are
regards
Paul |
|
Back to top |
|
|
apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hello Andrew,
Just to give you a wee helping hand .....
From Commomwealth War Graves Commission:
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=490752
Name: SUNTER
Initials: A B (Andrew Bowie)
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
Unit Text: 8th Bn.
Date of Death: 24/06/1916
Service No: 460920
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: VI. B. 38.
Cemetery: RAILWAY DUGOUTS BURIAL GROUND
From Canadian Archives: (His Attestation Papers which can be downloaded FREE!)
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=258852&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=jbic82pk63j1g3earmmuk6hdp6
Andrew Bowie Sunter, husband of Isabella Sunter, 53 King Street, Montrose, Forfarshire.
Date of Birth: 23rd March 1883?
Born: Elie
Occupation: Farmer
There are 2 pages to view/download (back and front of same page).
The back page gives a personal description - age (from which you'll be able to calculate his exact age, height, hair colour, eye colour, complexion etc.
Anne |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: Andrew Sunter - Elie war memorial |
|
|
Andrew
It looks like Andrew Bowie Sunter is your relative. In addition to the Attestation papers which Anne has provided the link to, it is possible to obtain his entire Service File from Ottawa. They can vary from a few pages to dozens with details of his service, medical, death, NOK, medals etc. I can get it for you, but there is a moderate cost. If interested, send me a PM or e-mail from my signature.
Railway Dugouts ( or Transport Farm ) Cemetery lies between a railway embankment and a farmstead. The farm was used as an Advanced Dressing Station and made use of large dugouts set into the embankment. Andrew is buried in a section made up of graves brought in from the battlefields and small cemeteries in the area after the conflict ended. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ADP
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 467 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Andrew,
See http://www.royalhighlanders.co.uk/montrose.htm
ANDREW BOWIE SUNTER
Private 460920, 8th Battalion, Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
Died on 24th June 1916. Age 33.
Born at Elie, Fife, and enlisted at Winnipeg, Canada.
Husband of Isabella Sunter, of 53 King Street, Montrose.
RAILWAY DUGOUTS BURIAL GROUND
See also on this website Montrose war memorial:
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1170
See also the Canada at War website:
http://www.wwii.ca/memorial/world-war-i/67968/private-andrew-bowie-sunter
And also: http://www.eliewarmemorials.org.uk/AndrewBSunter.htm
Name: Andrew B Sunter
Rank: Private
Service Number: 460920
Regiment/Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
Born: Andrew Alexander Sunter. 21 March 1884, Liberty Place, Parish of Kilconquhar
Died: 24 June 1916
Memorial: Elie War Memorial
ex Wood Memorial Church
Buried-Remembered Railway Dugouts Burial Ground. Belgium
Family: Son of Christopher Mitchell Sunter and Robina Sunter ms Thomson
1901 Census: Bass View, Liberty, Civil Parish of Elie
Newspaper: East of Fife Record 10 August 1916
Additional: Middle initial on Elie War Memorial is incorrect.
Wood Memorial Church Memorial has correct middle initial.
see web site; Libray and Archives Canada
Andrew B Sunter was his cousin who died in 1956
I am unsure what to make of the info in the additional information on that website.
ADP
Last edited by ADP on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Something a bit odd here. :
Birth records at scotlandspeople shows the only Andrew Bowie Sunter born 1880 at Leith South BUT
Andrew Alexander Sunter born 1884 at Kiconquhar/Earlsferry, Fife????? _________________ Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ADP
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 467 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kenneth Morrison wrote: | Something a bit odd here. :
Birth records at scotlandspeople shows the only Andrew Bowie Sunter born 1880 at Leith South BUT
Andrew Alexander Sunter born 1884 at Kiconquhar/Earlsferry, Fife????? |
ADP wrote: |
Additional: Middle initial on Elie War Memorial is incorrect.
Wood Memorial Church Memorial has correct middle initial.
see web site; Libray and Archives Canada
Andrew B Sunter was his cousin who died in 1956
I am unsure what to make of the info in the additional information on that website. |
Maybe the Elie war memorial site has answered that?
ADP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
AND
Andrew Alexander Sunter married Isabella Jane Wilson 1907 in Montrose.
So Andrew Alexander and Andrew Bowie (at LAC/CWG) is the same person? _________________ Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry ADP, you got your last post in while I was still composing mine.
Cheers _________________ Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ADP
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 467 Location: Edinburgh
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In the 1891 census, he was named Andrew B Sunter. So it looks like his known name changed sometime after his birth was registered in 1884 and the 1891 census.
The parents and nine children were at Bassview, Liberty, Kilconquhar in the 1891 census.
ADP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kenneth Morrison
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 7760 Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie
|
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just to summerise our man was born as Andrew Alexander in 1884. Married as Andrew Alexander in 1907 and enlisted as Andrew Bowie.
No wonder there are variations on memorials.
See where this family research can lead, Andrew.
Have fun. _________________ Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andrew Sunter
Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Location: Rosyth, Fife
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks to all for their help so far. I'm not sure what to make of the Andrew B against Andrew A thing. I'm wondering if there's a good reason why Andrew B left for Canada but his next of kin on the attestation paper is his wife and she is still in Montrose.
I'm a long long way from finding any answers here. not that i thought it would be easy. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Adam Brown Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
|
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
Andrew Sunter wrote: | I'm wondering if there's a good reason why Andrew B left for Canada but his next of kin on the attestation paper is his wife and she is still in Montrose. |
Andrew
Some men went to North America to earn good money with the intention of returning home and some went ahead of their family to get a job and a place to live. I once heard two old boys in Edinburgh who had lived in Canada in the 1950s recount that happening to them. In the second man's case after his wife joined him in Canada she got homesick so they returned to Scotland. Perhaps Sunter's wife had been to Canada with him but didn't like it and returned home?
Regards
Adam |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andrew Sunter
Joined: 19 Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Location: Rosyth, Fife
|
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi
I've pretty much established that Andrew Sunter on the memorial is related to me but i'm not yet sure how closely. I've traced direct ancestors of mine back to Elie, Earlsferry, Kilconquhar albeit a bit earlier than the Andrew in question. we obviously have a common ancestor, i'm just not sure how long ago.
thanks for all your guidance. i really appreciate it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
apanderson Administrator
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2571 Location: Stirlingshire
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|