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Andrew Sunter - Elie war memorial

 
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Andrew Sunter



Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Rosyth, Fife

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Andrew Sunter - Elie war memorial Reply with quote

Hi, I'm not sure where to start so here goes. i came across this site through a tag on the photo sharing website flickr. I noticed my name on a tag and it took me into the photo of the Elie memorial. on the memorial, and the reason I am on here, is a namesake of mine. Now Elie is in Fife and I am a Fifer born and bred and I am wondering if the Andrew Sunter on the memorial is in anyway related to me, but i dont have a clue where or how to find out. the reason I think we may be related is that the surname is fairly unusual and also that his forenames Andrew and Alexander (i found out from another site that the middle initial on the memorial is wrong and that his middlename is Alexander) crop up throughout my family history as far back as i know. my grandfather was Alexander, I have an uncle called Alexander, my brother's middlename is Alexander and so on

Anyone know where i might begin to find out if we are related?
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4991
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome to the project.

normal advice is to do your own family tree working backwards and then use the 19th century censuses to see if you share any ancestors. you might try a shortcut for an unusual surname and look up all of those listed on the 1901 census - you should be able to find the man on the memorial, perhaps as a child and if living with parents they may be your relatives also

MIC or service record (if it exists) may give his next of kin, also try CWGC, SNWM and SDGW. let us know if you need info on what these are

regards

Paul
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apanderson
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Stirlingshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Andrew,

Just to give you a wee helping hand .....

From Commomwealth War Graves Commission:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=490752

Name: SUNTER
Initials: A B (Andrew Bowie)
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
Unit Text: 8th Bn.
Date of Death: 24/06/1916
Service No: 460920
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: VI. B. 38.
Cemetery: RAILWAY DUGOUTS BURIAL GROUND

From Canadian Archives: (His Attestation Papers which can be downloaded FREE!)

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=258852&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=jbic82pk63j1g3earmmuk6hdp6

Andrew Bowie Sunter, husband of Isabella Sunter, 53 King Street, Montrose, Forfarshire.
Date of Birth: 23rd March 1883?
Born: Elie
Occupation: Farmer

There are 2 pages to view/download (back and front of same page).

The back page gives a personal description - age (from which you'll be able to calculate his exact age, height, hair colour, eye colour, complexion etc.

Anne
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:39 pm    Post subject: Andrew Sunter - Elie war memorial Reply with quote

Andrew

It looks like Andrew Bowie Sunter is your relative. In addition to the Attestation papers which Anne has provided the link to, it is possible to obtain his entire Service File from Ottawa. They can vary from a few pages to dozens with details of his service, medical, death, NOK, medals etc. I can get it for you, but there is a moderate cost. If interested, send me a PM or e-mail from my signature.

Railway Dugouts ( or Transport Farm ) Cemetery lies between a railway embankment and a farmstead. The farm was used as an Advanced Dressing Station and made use of large dugouts set into the embankment. Andrew is buried in a section made up of graves brought in from the battlefields and small cemeteries in the area after the conflict ended.
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk
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ADP



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 467
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andrew,

See http://www.royalhighlanders.co.uk/montrose.htm

    ANDREW BOWIE SUNTER
    Private 460920, 8th Battalion, Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
    Died on 24th June 1916. Age 33.
    Born at Elie, Fife, and enlisted at Winnipeg, Canada.
    Husband of Isabella Sunter, of 53 King Street, Montrose.
    RAILWAY DUGOUTS BURIAL GROUND


See also on this website Montrose war memorial:
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1170

See also the Canada at War website:
http://www.wwii.ca/memorial/world-war-i/67968/private-andrew-bowie-sunter

And also: http://www.eliewarmemorials.org.uk/AndrewBSunter.htm

    Name: Andrew B Sunter
    Rank: Private
    Service Number: 460920
    Regiment/Service: Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment)
    Born: Andrew Alexander Sunter. 21 March 1884, Liberty Place, Parish of Kilconquhar
    Died: 24 June 1916
    Memorial: Elie War Memorial
    ex Wood Memorial Church

    Buried-Remembered Railway Dugouts Burial Ground. Belgium
    Family: Son of Christopher Mitchell Sunter and Robina Sunter ms Thomson
    1901 Census: Bass View, Liberty, Civil Parish of Elie
    Newspaper: East of Fife Record 10 August 1916

    Additional: Middle initial on Elie War Memorial is incorrect.
    Wood Memorial Church Memorial has correct middle initial.
    see web site; Libray and Archives Canada
    Andrew B Sunter was his cousin who died in 1956

I am unsure what to make of the info in the additional information on that website.

ADP


Last edited by ADP on Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 7749
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something a bit odd here. : Confused
Birth records at scotlandspeople shows the only Andrew Bowie Sunter born 1880 at Leith South BUT
Andrew Alexander Sunter born 1884 at Kiconquhar/Earlsferry, Fife?????
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ADP



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 467
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenneth Morrison wrote:
Something a bit odd here. : Confused
Birth records at scotlandspeople shows the only Andrew Bowie Sunter born 1880 at Leith South BUT
Andrew Alexander Sunter born 1884 at Kiconquhar/Earlsferry, Fife?????

ADP wrote:

    Additional: Middle initial on Elie War Memorial is incorrect.
    Wood Memorial Church Memorial has correct middle initial.
    see web site; Libray and Archives Canada
    Andrew B Sunter was his cousin who died in 1956

I am unsure what to make of the info in the additional information on that website.


Maybe the Elie war memorial site has answered that?

ADP
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 7749
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AND
Andrew Alexander Sunter married Isabella Jane Wilson 1907 in Montrose.

So Andrew Alexander and Andrew Bowie (at LAC/CWG) is the same person?
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 7749
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry ADP, you got your last post in while I was still composing mine.

Cheers
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Ken
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ADP



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 467
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 1891 census, he was named Andrew B Sunter. So it looks like his known name changed sometime after his birth was registered in 1884 and the 1891 census.

The parents and nine children were at Bassview, Liberty, Kilconquhar in the 1891 census.

ADP
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 7749
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to summerise our man was born as Andrew Alexander in 1884. Married as Andrew Alexander in 1907 and enlisted as Andrew Bowie.
No wonder there are variations on memorials.

See where this family research can lead, Andrew.
Have fun.
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Andrew Sunter



Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Rosyth, Fife

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all for their help so far. I'm not sure what to make of the Andrew B against Andrew A thing. I'm wondering if there's a good reason why Andrew B left for Canada but his next of kin on the attestation paper is his wife and she is still in Montrose.

I'm a long long way from finding any answers here. not that i thought it would be easy.
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Adam Brown
Curator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Sunter wrote:
I'm wondering if there's a good reason why Andrew B left for Canada but his next of kin on the attestation paper is his wife and she is still in Montrose.


Andrew

Some men went to North America to earn good money with the intention of returning home and some went ahead of their family to get a job and a place to live. I once heard two old boys in Edinburgh who had lived in Canada in the 1950s recount that happening to them. In the second man's case after his wife joined him in Canada she got homesick so they returned to Scotland. Perhaps Sunter's wife had been to Canada with him but didn't like it and returned home?

Regards

Adam
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Andrew Sunter



Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Rosyth, Fife

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I've pretty much established that Andrew Sunter on the memorial is related to me but i'm not yet sure how closely. I've traced direct ancestors of mine back to Elie, Earlsferry, Kilconquhar albeit a bit earlier than the Andrew in question. we obviously have a common ancestor, i'm just not sure how long ago.

thanks for all your guidance. i really appreciate it.
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apanderson
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Stirlingshire

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew, have you thought about joining some genealogy forums?

Rootschat ( http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php ) or Talking Scot ( http://www.talkingscot.com/forum/ ) are 2 of the best and both have military sections. If nothing else, you might get some guidance as to how to tie 'loose-ends' up.

Anne
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