The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

dhubthaigh · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: Black Watch (Boer War), Perth

I wonder if this memorial was removed when they remodelled St. John's Kirk as the Great War Memorial. Such a shame as it must have been a magnificent piece of work, and some sight;

THE SCOTSMAN: 21.02.1905

BLACK WATCH MEMORIAL FOR PERTH

The Black Watch Memorial, which is to be erected in St. John's East Parish Church, Perth, is to be unveiled by the Duke of Atholl, K.T., next Saturday. The memorial is made of copper chased repousse in high relief. The design is a wreath of laurels and thistles entwined with a ribbon, on which is inscribed the names of twenty-four battles. The thistle blooms are made of yellow and green cairngorms, amethysts, Ayrshire jaspers, and other Scottish pebbles. On the two top corners are two badges of the regiment, the order of St. Andrew, and the sphynx of Egypt enamelled in colour on silver, and the bottom corners are the old numbers of the Black Watch, 42 and 73. The centre-plate is made of three sheets of copper with the names of 209 officers, non-commissioned officers, and men chased in raised letters; while at the bottom are two finely chased and modelled figures of an officer and man in full arms. The memorial is claimed to be the largest piece of pure hammered work in Scotland. Some idea of the difficulty of hammering will be got when it is mentioned that the centre-plate is about the thickness of a threepenny piece, while the figures are 11 inch in relief. The memorial, the work of Mr J. M. Talbot, Hanover Street, Edinburgh, is on view in the window of John Taylor & Son (Limited), 110 Princes Street, and has attracted much attention.

spoons · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject:

The memorial is not listed by UKNIWM but there should be reference to it in the book "Session Register East Church 1892-1923". Alas I don't know where this document is held.

\Paul

dhubthaigh · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject:

spoons · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject:

My understanding is that such records may exist for Church of Scotland but the presbytery system means that records may not be kept. The Church of England operates a faculty system which means that such things have to be recorded. I don't know whether this applies to the Scottish Episcopal Church or not.

\Paul

dhubthaigh · Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:43 am Post subject:

PERTH ARCHIVES

Ref NO PE66/Bundle40
Title Black Watch, Royal Perthshire Militia and Volunteer Papers
Date 1903-1905
Level File
Description Minutes of meetings, accounts, circulars and other papers relating to the erection of a public memorial in Perth to the officers and men of the Black Watch killed in the south African War (1899-1902). Includes:

Circular letter from the Duke of Atholl, Lord Lieutenant and Thomas Love, Lord Provost concerning the calling of a public meeting “to consider the advisability of erecting a public memorial in Perth to the officers and men of the Black Watch”; 8 June 1903.

Letter from D Beveridge & Son, Monumental Sculptors, Perth Marble Works, York Place, Perth to John Begg, City Chambers enclosing three sketched designs to be considered by the committee for the Black Watch memorial and furnishing Begg with the details of their dimensions and price; 17 July 1903.

Report of public meeting in the Perthshire Courier concerning what form the Black Watch Memorial should take, viz whether the tablet should be placed inside or outside St John’s Church and the proposal that there should be a Joint Subscription to the Queen Victoria Memorial School for children of Soldiers and Sailors in Scotland (under the direction of the Committee of Ladies formed by Marchioness of Tullibardine) and the Black Watch Memorial. The Marquis of Tullibardine’s draft motion attached; 1903.

Circular letter from the Duke of Atholl, Lord Lieutenant and Thomas Love, Lord Provost concerning proposals to commemorate the fallen of the Black Watch by erecting a tablet in St John’s Church, Perth and also the establishing of a school for sons of Scottish Soldiers and Sailors in Dunblane as a Scottish National Memorial to Queen Victoria; September 1903.

List of members of the Black Watch memorial executive committee; n.d.

Minutes of meeting of the city finance committee reporting that the subscriptions received from the city of Perth towards a public memorial amounted to £48.0/6d; 1904.

Minutes of meeting of the Black Watch memorial executive committee intimating plans to erect a war memorial in St John’s Church and the approval of its design by sculptor Mr Talbot, Edinburgh; 1904.

Circular letter from John Begg, town clerk. Invitation to the unveiling ceremony of the memorial in St John’s (East Parish) Church on Saturday 25 February 1905.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject:

I bumped into Tommy Smyth, B.W. archivist, at the library this morning. The memorial exists at St. John's Kirk but it is inaccessible to the general public. Tommy has been trying to get it moved into the main part of the church for 5 years!! Hopefully soon though.

spoons · Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject:

great news, look forward to seeing it.

\Paul

dhubthaigh · Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject:

dhubthaigh · Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject:

Difficult to photograph due to the copper material and poor lighting. Will transcribe in due course.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:47 am Post subject:

Thanks to Tommy Smyth, Black Watch Archives, for the following;

spoons · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm Post subject:

I see the first name is Maj Gen Wauchope. He appears on a number of other memorials including St Giles cathedral in Edinburgh and Winchester cathedral.

\Paul

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject:

The "Australian" Lt. Gideon J Grieve's story and the Black Watch connection is at http://www.bwm.org.au/site/Gideon_Grieve.asp
_________________
Ken

stuartn · Joined: 13 Dec 2016 Posts: 2551

WMR 81928