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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: William Sim - Canadian? Or is he William Philips HLI? |
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This is an odd one.
I follow a twitter account called @WeAreTheDead. It is a Canadian account which lists a dead Canadian serviceman or woman on the hour every hour. Earlier today they listed this man.
Lance Corporal William Sim (Highland Light Infantry). May 10, 1915
The name and the unit looked Scottish so I tried to look him up. He's not on the CWGC database.
The tweets are taken from the Veteran Affairs Canada database so I looked that up and I got some more information.
In memory of
Lance Corporal
WILLIAM SIM
who died on May 10, 1915
Military Service:
Service Number: 9660
Force: Army
Unit: Highland Light Infantry
Division: 1st
It's the Scottish HLI not the Canadian one. Fair enough I though since he is a Canadian in a Scottish unit.
I then checked the SNWM which drew a blank too.
I typed William Sim 9660 10 May 1915 into Google. It was a bit of a long shot but worth try. I found this website:
http://wwii.ca/memorial/world-war-i/52156/lance-corporal-william-sim/
It incorrectly identies his unit as the HLI of Canada but it does give a cemetary (sic)
Service # 9660
Rank - Lance Corporal
Force - Army
Regiment - Highland Light Infantry
Death Date - May 10, 1915
Cemetary - Cabaret-rouge British Cemetery
Clicking on the Cabaret-rouge British Cemetery link on that website shows two men with the same first name, same rank and from the same unit who died on the same day.
William Sim Highland Light Infantry Lance Corporal May 10, 1915
William Philips Highland Light Infantry Lance Corporal May 10, 1915
Looking up William Philips we get a man with also the same number as William Sim
Name: PHILLIPS
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Highland Light Infantry
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 10/05/1915
Service No: 9660
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XVII. B. 24.
Cemetery: CABARET-ROUGE BRITISH CEMETERY, SOUCHEZ
But SNWM shows him to be a Scot from Peterhead
PHILIPS
Firstname Wm
Service Number 9660
Date Death 10/05/1915
Decoration
Place of birth Peterhead
Other 1st Bn.
SNWM roll THE HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY
Rank L/Cpl
There is also a PHILIPS W.S. HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY CORPORAL on the Peterhead War Memorial. He looks like a later addition because his name is out of sequence on an alphabetical memorial.
Anne Park lists Philips under Peterhead on this forum. He is also listed on the Aberdeen Roll of Honour with an address of 3 Fraser Street.
Philips William S Cpl 9660 1st Highland Light Infantry Died of Wounds F & F 10-May-15 City Roll of Honour: 3 Fraser St: Cabaret-Rouge British Cemetery, Souchez Fr 0924 Plot XVII Row B Grave 24 City & Peterhead
So did William Sim exist or is he a clerical error? Or is William Philips the error.
And why is Sim listed on the Canadian website?
Adam |
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Adam Brown
Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Just checking the Veteran Affairs Canada website gives this entry
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/collections/virtualmem/Detail/583684
In memory of
Lance Corporal
WILLIAM PHILIPS
who died on May 10, 1915
Military Service:
Service Number: 9660
Force: Army
Unit: Highland Light Infantry
Division: 1st Bn.
But following a link on that page muddies the water further.
Both Sim and Philips are both listed on page 568 of the Canadian Book of Remembrance here:
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/images/collections/books/bww1/ww1568.jpg
So who is William Sim and why is William Philips of Peterhead listed in a Canadian Book of Remembrance?
From page 565 onwards of the Book it lists British Empire Forces casualties. A check on the first name shows a Gloucester connection, not Canada. |
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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A clue might come from this entry in the addenda. On page 602 of the 1915 deaths:
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/images/collections/books/bww1/ww1602.jpg
BROWN, HERBERT CHRISTIE
Initials: H C
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: King's Own Scottish Borderers
Unit Text: 1st/4th Bn.
Age: 35
Date of Death: 12/07/1915
Service No: 6717
Additional information: Husband of Mary Brown, of 4294, Montrose Avenue, Westmount, Quebec, Canada.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 84 to 92 or 220 to 222.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL |
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Stewartry
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
Location: nr Nottingham
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Hi Adam,
ScotlandsPeople returns a William Sim Philips born 1885, Aberdeen. Confusion over naming?
Stuart
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www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book |
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Adam Brown
Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Stuart
Thanks. It looks like it is the same man then.
The mistake goes back to the original Book of Remembrance but even with two entries William Sim Philips must have had some link to Canada to be entered into the book.
Many thanks for looking him up.
Adam |
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anne park
Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 21200
Location: Aberdeen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: This is on my database no burial details..... |
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| Sim William L/cpl 9660 1st Highland Light Infantry Peterhead Aberdeen Died of Wounds F & F 19-May-15 |
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anne park
Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 21200
Location: Aberdeen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: This entry has no born or enlisted details |
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| Philips William S Cpl 9660 1st Highland Light Infantry Died of Wounds F & F 10-May-15 City Roll of Honour: 3 Fraser St: Cabaret-Rouge British Cemetery, Souchez Fr 0924 Plot XVII Row B Grave 24 City & Peterhead |
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anne park
Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 21200
Location: Aberdeen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: Visit to the library to look the paper? |
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| I know there will be an entry in the People's Journal but when will it turn up? It maybe will give a few clues to this man. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Aberdeenshire
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | " .... William Sim Philips must have had some link to Canada to be entered into the book. " |
I suspect he left Canada to join the HLI, likely he was recalled from the Reserve having gone to Canada when his Regular time was expired.
_________________
Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk
Last edited by kinnethmont on Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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anne park
Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 21200
Location: Aberdeen
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: No time to visit library |
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I had planned to go to The Central Library but didn't manage to do that.
Will try to get the info soon. |
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Adam Brown
Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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[quote="kinnethmont"] | Quote: | | likely he was recalled from the Reserve having gone to Canada when his Regular time was expired. |
Jim
Yes given his age and the unit he was serving it that was my thoughts too.
Adam |
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Jim
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| When Adam first posted about this chap I wondered if he'd stumbled across another Man Who Never Was story which had so far been kept secret. |
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Adam Brown
Curator
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Jim
Before delving further I thought he was a non-commemoration but it is a more mundane matter than that.
I contacted Veteran Affairs Canada to see if the could put something on the page for William Sim but since the mistake is in the Book of Remembrance I don't know if anything will be done.
I'm surprised this wasn't picked up at the time. The names are on the same page of the Book and the details of the Virtual Memorial database include the regimental number which was presumably collected at the time the Book was created. Otherwise how would the Virtual memorial have got this information without coming across this error before?
All very strange.
Adam |
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Jim
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Indeed. It was the seeming complexity of the situation which suggested, to me, conspiracy rather than c***-up. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Aberdeenshire
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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No conspiracy.
This man is correctly recorded by CWGC and VAC as William Phillips, Canadian, 1st HLI. Will add more details later today.
_________________
Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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