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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: DeathCertificates for people on memorial |
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Hello and thank you for allowing me to join.
My G-grand father is listed on our local memorial and I have found his grave in the cemetery with the details I got from the CWGC web site.
I have been attempting to find a death cert for him and further details about him but Scotland's people website can find only his wedding certificate.
He died after the war 26/2/47at the age of 51 listed as a private in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.
Hoping for some help/suggestions on where else I might be able to get more information about how he died. |
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anne park Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 21200 Location: Aberdeen
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: Getting info |
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Try looking the local newspapers on film at the local library.
Anne |
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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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That was going to be my next move but I was wondering if there was anything I could check online in the time being.
I have been looking at the regiment history but not finding anything for the 14th btn A&SH |
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anne park Our first ever 2000 poster
Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 21200 Location: Aberdeen
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: More info |
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Can you give the info you have and then there is something to work with.
Anne |
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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yes sorry I should have thought of that.
Name: WILLIAMSON, WILLIAM JAMES
Initials: W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
Unit Text: 14th Bn.
Age: 51
Date of Death: 26/02/1947
Service No: 2984933
Additional information: Son of Charles and Margaret Williamson; husband of Susan Williamson, of Port Glasgow.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. K. Row 7. Grave 82.
Cemetery: PORT GLASGOW CEMETERY
thank you |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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He's definately there on Scotlands People. Just drop the middle name and you'll see him.
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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you.
I bought the cert from Scotland's people and it's totally illegible so I had to put in a "feedback ticket".
This is the cause of death section............which is about the clearest information on it.
I will continue looking for more information about the 14th Bn while i wait for them to get back to me.
Thank you for all your help |
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DelBoy
Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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It reads "cerebral hemorrhage". |
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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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That is what I thought but why would he have been mentioned on the war memorial because surley that is natural causes?
If I could find out what the 14th btn was doing by 1947 it might explain a little more but I am guessing you are going to say I would need to request his service record to find out for sure which sadly I can't afford.
Guess I might never find out. |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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He is commemorated by CWGC since, at his death ( before 31st December 1947 ), he was a serving soldier.
It is likely that the WW2 memorial was not in place until later and his name included on it. If not, it must have been added to it.
There is no linkage between names on war memorials and war dead commemorated by CWGC.
Soldiers in this situation were not always included on memorials. I know a case where a soldier was killed in a vehicle accident in 1947. His father did not want his son included on the local memorial among those who fell in the war. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much for that information.
I know that the memorial was not in place till 1952 http://www.portglasgow4u.co.uk/Towns_History/War_Memorials.html
I am going to look at the archive in the library tomorrow and will let you know if I find anything but thanks for all your help. |
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ADP
Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Posts: 467 Location: Edinburgh
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Here is my interpretation of the death certificate:
William Williamson, Engineer's Labourer, married to Susan Brennan.
1947, February Twenty-sixth, 1h 55m pm., 4 Woodhall Terrace, Port Glasgow.
M, 51 Years.
(father) Charles Williamson, Labourer (deceased),
(mother) Margaret Williamson, ms. Fraser (deceased).
Cerebral Haemorrhage, as cert by L Weir, M.B.
(signed) Charles Williamson, Son, present, 32 Sinclair Street, Port Glasgow.
(registered) 1947, February 28th at Port Glasgow, _ _____, Registrar.
I cannot guarantee much of the above, as I agree with you that it is difficult to read. Hopefully ScotlandsPeople will send you a fresh scan of the death certificate which will be much more legible.
I had a look at his marriage certificate. Assuming I found the right one, his mother's maiden surname looked more like Harper. However I look at the death certificate, I don't see Harper there. See what the re-scanned death certificate gives you.
ADP |
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kinnethmont
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | He is commemorated by CWGC since, at his death ( before 31st December 1947 ), he was a serving soldier. |
I should have added to this " or if not serving, died after discharge due to service related causes ". However, for some reason edits are not allowed on this General section.
The details ADP gives do not confirm this man as a serving soldier, nor do they relate the cause of death as related to his service. This seems odd. _________________ Jim
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
www.kinnethmont.co.uk |
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carolmcg
Joined: 21 Oct 2010 Posts: 7
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Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you ADP you were spot on other than the address for the son - the new cert clearly has Bouverie Street and the mothers maiden name looks like Harper on the new one.
I have been to the cemetery and the stone is still standing and in good condition - it has the emblem of the A&SH and all the details we already have. I did not take a photo due to poor weather conditions. The only clue there was the fact that there was another small stone with his name and date of death as well as the remembrance one - I can only assume they have marked the grave until the other stone was put in place. I spoke nicely to the lads working and they made a phone call and where able to tell me the lair contained Charles, Susan and William.
I have also managed to check the local press archives and found the death notice submitted by the family. Nothing new there other than a difference of the date of death listing it as 26th February.
No reports in the press about it on the weeks prior or after the service which was a private affair according to the public notice.
The website link I posted is actually my own site so my local knowledge is not too bad - I know that both the addresses on the certificate were bombed on the nights of 5th & 6th of May 1941.
In the two nights 73 were dead and over 40 injured.- nothing maybe to do with my initial enquiry but a strange coincidence all the same |
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