The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

spoons · Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: Superceded memorials

I thought of posting this on the 'another skip rescue' thread at http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=9206 but I think it deserves its own post.

I think there is a much wider issue of replaced or superseded memorials which have a newer or replacement memorial.

We have some evidence that the Church of Scotland asked all parishes to maintain a ROH during WW1 and yet many churches no longer have them. Over the past 9+ years I have come to think that maybe these became the basis for the war memorials raised around 1922 and that their need was considered to be passed (even though the memorial erected contains only the names of those who died, and not those who served and survived).

My supposition is that where an original handwritten 'working' ROH was transcribed the original was usually disposed of. The Wallaceton ROH is a rare survival where the original ROH is in the reverse of the currently displayed frame.

My current hometown of Dalry has a magnificent wooden painted ROH but there is no surviving paper copy so again, I assume it was disposed of.

A few years ago I attended the unveiling of a new 'permanent' WW2 memorial at St Joseph's school in Dumfries. It replaced a previous 'temporary' memorial. What has happened to that? Does it still exist? I'll have to check.

I understand that the War Memorial Trust's view is that a superseded memorial becomes an 'artefact' as opposed to remaining as a memorial and that they are unlikely to approve grants for repairs or renovations to these.

Does anyone have any other examples of superseded or replaced memorials or thoughts on the subject?

\Paul

Adam Brown · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:35 am Post subject:

When St Mungo's Church in Albion Road became Lockhart Memorial Church in 1927 it moved into a new building built next door.

When it closed in 1987 the memorial was moved to South Leith Parish Church

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ftopic4131.html

This memorial was made in 1928 for the new church. The original St Mungo's memorial is no more.

However a St Mungo's Roll of Honour did survive in the church hall (the original church) and it was saved from the skip in 1987 and is now in private hands.

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=4798

So three memorials/ rolls of honour and two are known to have survived.

Thanks

Adam

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:02 pm Post subject:

Paul - you also found the original draft Roll of Honour at Glasserton Church in Wigtownshire.
http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6209
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Ken

spoons · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject:

Aye, and I remembered that the Tron church in Glasgow had a new glass memorial made to replace three original brass ones, the last I heard was that the originals were in storage with no plans. So again, superseded (or former?) memorials are going from view and I think that retaining them is important as this is all part of the history of how we have commemorated those lost over time.

\Paul

rolt968 · Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 16

It is worth looking in the Kirk Session Minute books. Stracathro parish church produced a roll of honour for men serving at the beginning of January 1915. I suspect this was in association with the national day of prayer on the first Sunday of 1915. The session clerk obliging copied the whole thing, names, ranks, units and where they came from in the parish into the kirk session minute book. It includes a number of men on the war memorial.

Roger M