The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

Kenneth Morrison

Another one from the Maxwelltown/Troqueer WM in Dumfries.

McKENZIE, WM. SGT. E. SUR. REGT.

There is a MIC for William J A MacKenzie, Pte. and Cpl. 1616. East Surrey Regt. but I don't see him on CWGC/SNWM or birth/death records.

There is also a William McKenzie, Pte. S/14888. 10th A&SH 12/10/1916
who is listed on the local RoH as of Victoria Ave. Maxwelltown but everywhere else as of Dumfries so I really don't think it's him.

HELP Confused

_________________
Ken

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject:

This is getting "odderer"

The Dumfries and Galloway Standard of 23/2/1918 has a photo entitled
Sergeant William McKenzie, East Surrey Regiment. Killed in action in France 25/11/1917.
Son of Mr McKenzie, Painter, of Academy St. Dumfries and husband of Mrs McKenzie of Elizafield, Maxwelltown.

But I still can't find him Confused

_________________
Ken

spoons · Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject:

There is a William Maxwell listed on St Michael's church memorial and roll of honour, but that is the Pte A&SH. Searched through Ancestry, no trace of any McKenzie or Mackenzie died on the date given. No MIC found for a William McKenzie or Mackenzie E Surrey. No William Mckenzie or Mackenzie E Surrey died on any date. I think logically one of the following is needed to explain this:

1. He had no medal entitlement AND did not die

2. He served under a different name than is on the memorial, either first or full name

3. He is a non-comm

4. Both regiment and date of death are wrong

I think that the most likely is that he served under a different name but even then, there were no Sgt's in E Surrey who died on that day.

Puzzled!

\Paul

Stewartry · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham

Yes, a bit of a puzzle right enough. All I can add for the moment is that there was a William McKenzie, born Maxwelltown, son of a painter, Joseph, lately of 7 Academy Street, Maxwelltown.

Joseph and Lizzie McKenzie had six sons (up until 1901 census), William being the eldest. Three of the boys enlisted with the 5th KOSB, Arthur being killed during the 12th July charge at Gallipoli. Interestingly, his photo is in the Courier, so it may be worth checking that newspaper too for a report on William.

Stuart
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject:

Another "snippet"
Arthur McKenzie's death (along with so many others) was reported in the D&G Standard of 31 July 1915 page 5.
Son of Joseph of McKenzie and Esdaile, Painters of Academy St. Dumfries.
He was educated at Glasgow St. School Maxwelltown and was employed in his father's business. 4 brothers are serving - Edward and Thomas with 2/5th KOSB, John with the NZ Mounted Rifles and William with the Seaforth Highlanders.
_________________
Ken

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:44 am Post subject:

William McKenzie was born 1885 in Troqueer, the son of Joseph Smith McKenzie (House Painter) and Lizzie McLean (Clark) McKenzie.
In 1901 the family lived at Sutherland Terrace, Maxwelltown.
In 1908 William (a cloth weaver of 4 Market St. Maxwelltown) married Isobella McCardle (of Devorgilla Terrace, Maxwelltown) in Glasgow and in 1911 they were living at 28 King St. Maxwelltown.
Joseph and Lizzie and their family (including Arthur) were at 4 Market St. in 1911.
Isobella (McCardle) McKenzie - the "Widow of William McKenzie, Sgt. East Surrey Regt." died in 1939 aged 56 in Dumfries Infirmary.

I've tried all the surnames above but still no sign of him.
_________________
Ken

DelBoy · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject:

Perhaps posting on the GWF may help?

It' a sticky puzzle right enough.

Derek.

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject:

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject:

I'm still stuck with this man - another article from a local newspaper 30 January 1918 reads:

"Mrs. McKenzie, Elizafield, Maxwelltown has received a letter from the officer commanding a company of the East Surrey Regiment that her husband, Sergeant William McKenzie, was killed in action in France on 25th November last.
Sergeant McKenzie, who was the oldest son of Mr McKenzie, painter, 7 Academy Street, Dumfries, was a Reservist and re-joined his regiment, the Seaforth Highlanders, on the outbreak of war. He went to the front immediately, and was through the retreat from Mons.
In the course of much heavy fighting he was twice wounded and once gassed, and on re-joining after one of his periods in hospital he was attached to the East Surreys.
He was 32 years of age, and at the time of enlistment was employed with Arrol-Johnston, Limited. He was one of six brothers serving with the colours. Arthur was killed at Gallipoli while serving with the 5th KOSB. The other four have all been wounded"
( Arthur McKenzie, Pte.1910 - 1/5th KOSB was killed during the attack of 12 July 1915)

Any ideas on where I can go with my research of this man would be very welcome.
_________________
Ken

spoons · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject:

Nothing easy with this. I thought that as his father was a painter then he might have been as well but the only McKenzie on the missing painters memorial is A McKenzie who I guess might have been his brother.

The Arrol-Johnson memorial is only for 1914-1915 but has no McKenzie on it.

Perhaps he served unde an alias - have you checked if he served under his mother's maiden name?

The only other thought I have is to see where the E Surrey's were serving at the time and check for Scottish Regiment burials around those cemeteries around the 25th November 1917. You could check the E Surrey's regimental diary for the date.

You could also try an appeal to the East Surrey Family History Society http://www.eastsurreyfhs.org.uk/

\Paul

Stewartry · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham

Hi Ken,

A bit busy at the moment, so just a quick post to ask what you think of the following man?

Name: Charles Thomas Harris
Birth Place: Dumfries
Enlistment Location: Kingston-on-Thames, Surrey
Death Date: 26 Nov 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Rank: Corporal
Regiment: East Surrey Regiment
Battalion: 13th Battalion
Number: 19176
Type of Casualty: Killed in action

Cheers,

Stuart
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book

Stewartry · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham

An update - the following link to the GWF provides a possible (likely?) solution to this puzzle:

Sgt. William McKenzie, East Surrey Regt.

Anyone with access to the Surrey Recruitment Registers 1908-1933 on Findmypast would be a help.

Cheers,

Stuart
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book

Stewartry · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham

I have just checked the recent addition to Ancestry's WW1 resources, Soldiers' Effects 1901-1929, and found:

Harris, Charles Thomas alias William McKenzie - his legatee was his widow Isabella McKenzie.

Cheers,

Stuart
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book

DelBoy · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject:

Great stuff.

There must be a few more mysteries that can now be solved with the newly available docs.

It's also worth bearing in mind the "informal wills" on Scotlands People can be good for the same thing.

Derek.