The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

dhubthaigh

Our first Memorial/RoH for bell-ringers? Photgraphs courtesy of Hugh Macrae;

David McNay · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject:

I think you're right, this might be the first memorial we've had to bell-ringers.

David_Underdown · Joined: 01 Aug 2013 Posts: 7

As I've mentioned on Twitter, I've seen a variety of English examples before, not least the Roll of Honour of the Central Council for Church Bell Ringers, http://www.cccbr.org.uk/rolls/gtw/ (and in physical form kept at St Paul's Cathedral) and the roll I'm researching myself for the Surrey Association of Church Bell Ringers http://halfmuffled.wordpress.com . Many other county and diocesan associations have their own memorials.

Rolls for individual towers are slightly rarer, though Dorchester has one as does Hersham which can be seen at http://halfmuffled.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/ernest-james-hamblin-the-anzac-connection/hamblin-e-hersham-winchester-diocesan/ , Mitcham also had one, but it seems to have been lost in a subsequent fire in the tower.

In Scotland, a brief investigation prompted by this post found that St Mary's Cathedral, Edinburgh (Scottish Episcopal Church) also has a ringers' memorial which is among the plaques on http://www.edinburghcathedralringers.org.uk/index.php/plaques

Returning to this Dundee memorial, I suspect these men survived the war. There are no Dundee men on the Central Council roll, and a quick check against CWGC does find any matches even for the uncommon names like Fyffe and Tran. nor any Royal Navy Ronald Gibson's.

For Scottish ringers the only names on the Central Council roll are:

Gunner Gordon Tawse; Paisley, St James http://www.cccbr.org.uk/rolls/casualties/details.php?warID=&casID=996654
2nd Lt John Farquhar Mowat; Edinburgh, St Mary's (also on the plaque mentioned above) http://www.cccbr.org.uk/rolls/casualties/details.php?warID=&casID=996008
Private William Edward Muir MM; Edinburgh, St Cuthbert's http://www.cccbr.org.uk/rolls/casualties/details.php?warID=&casID=568107

Curiously the St Mary's Edinburgh plaque also names John Stannard of the British Red Cross. Despite what their website says about the plaque, he does not currently seem to be listed on the Central Council roll. Equally, unlike what is suggested on their website, the fact that he was BRCS does not automatically rule out CWGC recognition, and there would appear to be some chance he is a non-commemoration. There is a medal index card to John J Stannard, BRCS http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/image/Index/D5355771?index=1&page=0 who entered France on 18 January 1916, and the card is marked "deceased". I'm trying to track down the medal roll to see if that shows more detail, but I'm having a little difficulty cross-referencing the roll reference BRX/103B1 p67 with a current catalogue reference at The National Archives (where I have the good fortune to work). Having checked English and Welsh death indexes, I can't find a likely candidate, so if someone with Scotland's People access would like to check for info on John Stannard, that might also help (died of sickness 6 August 1917 according to the plaque)

I'll bring this thread to the attention of Alan Regin who is the current Steward of the Central Council roll of honour, and is always interested in additional memorials to ringers

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:39 pm Post subject:

JOHN THOMAS STANNARD died 6 August 1917 of an abdominal tumour at 30 Primrose Street, Leith aged 47. He was a warehouseman married to Marion Oliver Munro - they married at St James Episcopal Church in Leith in 1902. His father, Benjamin, was formerly a Sergeant Major in the Royal Artillery. His mother was Charlotte Marie Diamond Watherdon (or Witherdon) - indexed as Witherden when she married Benjamin in Dover in March Q 1867.
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Ken

David_Underdown · Joined: 01 Aug 2013 Posts: 7

Thanks Ken, the middle initial on the medal index card could be a T rather than a J taking a closer look at it, and the St Mary's Cathedral ringers' website does suggest a St James' Leith connection for him too, so that would seem to fit.

Unfortunately an abdominal tumour is unlikely to have been attributable to his service (though might have been considered aggravated by it - I've had a similar army non-comm case in the past), which makes CWGC recognition less likely as the criteria for Red Cross personnel are stricter than for military.

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject:

The copy is a bit faint but I believe it says:
JOHN THOMAS STANNARD born 28 April 1870 at 42 North Fort Street, North Leith. Father - Benjamin Stannard, a Bombardier. Mother - Charlotte Marie Diamond Stannard m.s. Witherdon. They married on 31 January 1867, Parish of St. Mary, Dover.
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Ken

dalblair · Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Posts: 564 Location: coupar angus

Apparently the eleven men are also commemorated in the Ringing room of the Steeple Church.