The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

Adam Brown · Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: Canongate War Memorial, Edinburgh

Canongate War Memorial
Location: Wall of Tolbooth, Canongate, Royal Mile
OS Ref: NT 264 737

I don't know if the names added at the bottom are extra Great War names or Canongate's Second World War names. I suspect the former.

Adam

Adam Brown · Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject:

Here is a list of the names:

1914-1918

AITKEN , John
ALEXANDER , Hugh
ALLAN , John
ANDREOLI , W
ATTENBURGH , Alexander
BARRIE , Arthur
BARRIE , James
BARRON , G
BEAUMONT , William
BLACKIE , Robert
BOOKER , Henry
BORLAND , R
BOSWELL , John
BOSWELL , John
BOWIE , Robert
BRANNAN , Thomas
BRANNAN , James
BREMNER , H S
BRUCE , John
BRUCE , Thomas G
BURNETT , Thomas
BURNS , Peter
CADDEN , George
CADDEN , George
CAIRNIE , Alexander
CALLAGHAN , John
CALLAGHAN , Joseph
CAMPBELL , Thomas
CAMPBELL , William
CANNON , Thomas
CARSTAIRS , G S R
CAWTHORN , Thomas
CLARK , Duncan
COCKBURN , William F
COLLIE , John
CONNOR , Frank
CONNOR , John
CONNOR , Thomas
CORMACK , Peter
CORR , Hugh
CRAWFORD , George
CUMMINGS , Thomas
CUNNINGHAM , James
CUNNINGHAM , James
CUNNISON , Thomas
CUTHBERTSON , E
DALGETY , Godfrey
DALGETY , Richard
DALLAS , John
DEVLIN , Frank Lance Sergeant , Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers , 7/8th Bn , 1917
DICKSON , John
DILLON , Patrick
DOCHERTY , John
DODDS , James Pringle
DOUGHERTY , Earnest
DOUGHERTY , Thomas
DOW , William Adams
DOWD , James
DUFFY , Hugh
DUFFY , Thomas
DUNCAN , John
DUNKLEY , James
EDWARDS , Alex
ELGIN , Charles
ELLIOT , William
FAIRBURN , James
FALLON , Archibald
FERGUSON , John
FERGUSON , Robert
FERGUSSON , James H R
FIRSTBROOK , John
FLANNIGAN , James
FLYNN , Charles
FORBES , John
FOULNER , Alfred
FOULNER , James
FOULNER , William
FRASER , William
GALLACHER , Peter
GALLACHER , Peter
GALLOWAY , James
GIBSON , David
GORDON , George
GOWANS , Francis
GRAHAM , William
GRAY , T G
GRIEVE , James
GRIFFEN , John
GROOM , Joseph
GUBB , James
GUILD , Alexander
GUNN , James
HALLEY , John
HARDY , John
HASTIE , Robert
HASTON , Alexander
HAY , George
HEPBURN , W S
HOGG , Edward
HOPE , Charles McK
HOPE , David
HOPE , John
HUME , Archibald
HUME , John
HUME , William
HUTTON , Alexander
INGLIS , John
INGLIS , William
INNES , Charles
IRELAND , John
JEFFREY , John
JENKINSON , James
JENKINSON , W O
JOHNSTON , Peter
KAY , John
KEANEY , Edward
KEMP , Robert
KERR , Leo
KERR , Michael
LAING , William
LAW , Douglas
LAWRIE , Adam
LOFTUS , Michael
LONGMUIR , David Kyles
LUKE , Daniel
MAIN , George
MALCOLM , John
MANNING , Charles
MASON , Edward
MASON , Thomas
McALLAM , William
McARDLE , George
McBRIDE , Thomas
McCULLOCH , Joseph
McDERMAID , Alexander
McDONALD , Alexander
McDONALD , Archie
McDONALD , Thomas
McDONALD , Donald
McFARLANE , James
McFARLANE , Peter
McGILL , George
McGRIMMON , Duncan
McINTOSH , James
McINTOSH , Peter
McKAY , John
McKENNA , Patrick
McKINLAY , James
McKINNON , R
McLEAN , Donald
McLELLAN , Murdoch
McLUSKIE , Robert
McLUSKIE , Owen F
MEECHAM , A
MELON , James
MENZIES , John
MENZIES , George
MEREDITH , John Hendry
MIDDLEMAS , William E
MILLAR , Alexander
MOFFATT , A
MOFFATT , William
MOIR , P
MORROW , Frank
MOWATT , Archibald
MOWBRAY , David
MUIRHEAD , John
MURPHY , John
MYLES , John
NORMAN , William
O'BRIEN , Thomas
O'DONNELL , James
O'DONNELL , John
PALMER , D
PALMER , Richard
PATERFIELD , William
PATERSON , Adam
PATERSON , Andrew
PATERSON , Duncan
PATERSON , Frank
PATERSON , John
PETTIGREW , William
PHEE , Lawrence Private , Black Watch , 2nd Bn , 1916
PHEE , Peter Private , King's Own Scottish Borderers , 7/8th Bn , 1917
POLLOCK , Robert
POOLE , Robert
PORTEOUS , William
PRESTON , George S
PRICE , Adam
PRICE , James
PURVES , David
PURVES , James
RAMSAY , John C
REID , James
REID , George G
REILLY , Thomas
RENNIE , S
RENNIE , Robert
REYNOLDS , P
RICHARDSON , George
RITCHIE , Willima
RIVA , Alexander
ROBERTSON , William
SIMPSON , George
SMAIL , Andrew Private , Royal Defence Corps , 160th Protection Coy. , 1917
SMITH , george
SMITH , james
SMITH , Peter
SPENCE , William
STEVEN , P
STEWART , George
STEWART , Thomas
STEWART , William
STEWART , Hugh B
SUTHERLAND , George
SUTHERLAND , Robert
SUTTIE , Robert
THOMSON , Harry
THOMSON , Samuel
THOMSON , John
TINLIN , John
TORRIE , George
TURNBULL , Robr
URQUHART , James
URQUHART , John
VALE , Edward James
VESSIE , George
VESSIE , James
WARDLAW , Henry
WARDLAW , Thomas
WESTLAND , Charles McK
WHELAN , Micahel
WHITE , Benjamin
WHITFORD , John
WILSON , Alexander
WOOD , John
YOUNG , John

.

simmo · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:46 am Post subject:

Hi

I am wondering if anyone can help me. I am in Australia and my parents came from Scotland. After my parents passed away I started to do some research into my ancestry and have come across some interesting things. My Father's Mother was married to a Peter McIntosh who was killed in WW1 and then she married my Grandfather. Searching your site I came across this memorial with Peter McIntosh on it. I also note a James McIntosh. Is there anyway of finding out if Peter is the same one and if James was his brother. I have census from 1901 and CWGC and medal cards for both but cant link them and dont know if this is the right memorial?

thanks for your time
yours sincerely

Robert Simpson

Adam Brown · Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:41 am Post subject:

Robert

Can you post the details you have already to see if we can help.

Regards

Adam

simmo · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:36 am Post subject:

Hi Adam

Here is what I have

Peter McIntosh -Private 11th Battalion Royal Scots 15822
(has 10th on Medal Index Card but 11th on CWGC and UK, Soldiers Died in Great War)
Born in Edinburgh abt 1890 as per 1901 census with residence as Edinburgh, 179 Canongate, with Father Peter and family Hyrum, Jane and James.
Married my Grandmother Elizabeth Ramsay on 27/09/1912 at Newington with address 21 Holyrood Square Edinburgh
Died 25/04/1916 and grave at Rifle Hose Cemetry Belgium 1 D8

James McIntosh
Born abt 1893 as from 1901 census (havn't been able to find birth form for both of them to confirm)
Found a James McIntosh in Ancestry records but not sure if it is the right person. Here is what I have
Jioned 3rd Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders in 1913 but was transferred to the 2nd in 1914 and went to France in 1915. Killed 18/08/1916 in France and Flanders and noted on Thiepval Memorial Pier Face 15A & 16C. Army number 3/6814
Ancestry also has his Service Records (unlike Peter) but I cant read all of it although it does note a brother? as Hyrum, that is why I think he could be Peter's brother
I hope this is enough but if you need more please let me know.

thanks
Robert

Adam Brown · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:01 am Post subject:

Robert

I don't know if you've seen these two photgraphs of Holyrood Square

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_a/0_around_edinburgh_-_dumbiedykes_photos_1959-63_h-r.htm

The 3rd Bn A&SH was based at Stirling. I don't know if that will help trace James?

Regards

Adam

apanderson · Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject:

It looks like James and Peter were definately brothers.

I downloaded James' Service Records and 'picked-out' relevant infomation.

Born in the Parish of Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Born c.October 1895)

Age at enlistment 17 years 11 months. Enlisted at Edinburgh 15th September 1913 (A. & S. H. Special Reserve)

Occupation Labourer on Woodyard.

Statement by Mr. Sutherland, Manager/Foreman, Jeffrey’s Brewery, Murrayfield, Edinburgh (15th September 1913)
Stating that James McIntosh had been employed as a Bottle Washer for 3 months and had left his employ on Saturday 6th September 1913 – reason: Lazy to get to work

Statement by Mr. Jardine, Manager/Tweed Merchant, Clothiers, 11 Forth Street (16th September 1913)
Stating than James McIntosh was employed as Messenger for his firm, but left 18 months prior.
Mr Jardine received a reference from the Supt. Of the Boys Brigade Home

Statement by Mr. Black (19th September 1913):
Stating that he was Guardian for 1 year

Why would the above Mr. Black say he was James' Guardian?

Next of Kin: Brothers HYRAM (E.) 13 James Street, Dalry?, Edinburgh, and PETER (E.)

Army Form W5080, Family Details (4th June 1919) Signed by HYRAM McINTOSH, Half-Brother on 7th June 1919
No children
Parents none (both deceased?)
No ‘Full Blood’ Siblings
1 ‘Half-Blood’ Brother: HYRUM McINTOSH, age 38, 13 James Street, Pilrig, Edinburgh
4 ‘Half-Blood’ Sisters:
Mrs. BEREN, age 42, 111 Broughton Road, Edinburgh
Miss McINTOSH, age 36?, Bridge Street Wynd, Kirkwall
Mrs. McDONALD, age 34, 107 High Street, Edinburgh
Mrs. BRUCE, age 36?, 8 Hamilton Place, Edinburgh

Letter from War Office regarding personal belongings consisting of a letter and photographs (4th December 1919)
Addressed to Mrs. C. (or E.) B. McINTOSH, 9 Prospect Street, Edinburgh

Memo from War Office (December 1919)
Medals should be despatched to Mrs. McIntosh, 9 Prospect St. Edinburgh in trust for the deceased soldier’s nephew, PETER

Acknowledgement of 1914-15 Star signed by HYRAM McINTOSH (24th September 1920)

‘Scroll’ Letter from Record Office to Mr HYRAM McINTOSH, 13 James Street, Pilrig, Edinburgh (7th October 1920)
Acknowledgement signed by HYRAM McINTOSH (12th November 1920)

Letter from HYRAM McINTOSH, 13 James Street, Pilrig, Edinburgh requesting War medals (17th August 1921)

British War & Victory Medals letter (3rd March 1922). Medals sent to: Mrs.? H. McINTOSH, 13 James Street, Pilrig, Edinmburgh

Letter from Infantry Record Office to Mr./Mrs.? HYRAM McINTOSH, 13 James Street, Pilrig (1922)
Acknowledgement signed by HYRAM McINTOSH (29th March 1922)

1901 Census (179 Canongate, Edinburgh, Midlothian)

Peter McIntosh, Head, age 46, born Edinburgh, Type Aresser (probably Type Setter)
Hyrum McIntosh, son, age 20, born Edinburgh, Iron Dresser
Jane McIntosh, daughter, age 16, born Edinburgh, Servant at home
Katie Brady, step-daughter, age 18, born Edinburgh, Type Setter
PETER McINTOSH, son, age 10, born Edinburgh, Scholar
JAMES McINTOSH, age 8, born Edinburgh, Scholar

Info you already have:

Peter McIntosh - Private 11th Battalion Royal Scots 15822
Born in Edinburgh abt 1890 as per 1901 census with residence as Edinburgh, 179 Canongate, with Father Peter and family Hyrum, Jane and James.
Married Elizabeth Ramsay on 27/09/1912 at Newington with address 21 Holyrood Square Edinburgh
Died 25/04/1916 and grave at Rifle Hose Cemetry Belgium 1 D8

Probably the next step would be to download Birth Certificates from Scotland's People and those would confirm the parentage. Going by the ages on the 1901 Census, there was only 2 years between James and Peter - possibly indicating that they were the children of a first marriage.

Brother Peter wouldn't be listed beside the rest of next of kin on Army Form W5080. as he died on 25th April 1916, 4 years prior.

I hope you're able to follow my ramblings!!

Anne

simmo · Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject:

Hi Adam and Anne

Adam, thanks for the photo link. It is interesting to see where they lived when they were married.

Anne
I have looked through my notes I have and have the army printout but couldn't read some of it so thanks for clarifying that. As for Mr Black saying he was James' Guardian it is because their parents were deceased. Doing rough searches on Scotlands People (dont have money to spare to pay yet) I have found that a search for Peter McIntosh(father) born 1855=-2 (from 1901 census) died 1901 to 12 , all parishes =2 and midlothian =1 at 1905 so I presume it is him and Catehrine McIntosh (McManus) 1893 to 1901 midlothian =3 (She was not on 1091 census). So it looks like both had died and kids were scattered.
I presume because of mention of step (1901 census) & half - family would indicate 2 marriages or blended family so need to do more searching with this. Will do so in the future. I think they were from second marriage- found 1 marriage of parents listed above in 1870 but to confirm??
Also have printout of Peter married to my Grandmother in 1912 lists both his parents deceased.
My original question is , is there anyway that you can confirm that they are the people on the memorial and are brothers and related to me. I did a printout of the Thiepval memorial where James name is and there are at least 6 Private James McIntosh's on it so it is a relatively popular name. I just want to make surew I have the right ones. I am wondering if there is a form or document somewhere which lists their regiment or parents or something to identify them?
Thanks for your time on this and excuse my ramblings!!!!!
regards

Robert Very Happy

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject:

Robert

simmo · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject:

Hi Adam

Thanks for your reply, I thought that there may be official records somewhere that would confirm without doubt it was them but I accept your advice. I have proved Peter's link to our family. Will work on the rest of their family as I can.

I appreciate the time both of you have spent on this

regards

Robert

P.S.

Anne , I am wondering why we can look up James's records but not Peter's . Surely since both died their records would have been kept at the same place. I thought that those who died in WW1 had their records separate from those who did not and it was most of the living records that were destroyed in WW2?
Seeing Peter's records would help to confirm and I would just like to read them!

thanks

apanderson · Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:20 pm Post subject:

I don't know why Peter's records aren't there Confused

I think the fact that on the Army Form W5080, where Peter isn't mentioned reinforces that this would be because Peter was already dead.

All presumption of course!

Anne

spoons · Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:27 am Post subject:

Surviving WW1 soldiers records fall into 3 groups

Household Cavalry and Guards records - these survived intact.

'Unburnt' records - these relate to soldiers who were discharged with pensions

'Burnt' records - these relate to soldiers who where killed in action, discharged without a pension, or demobilised at the end of the war

More than half of the burnt records were totally destroyed

see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/service_records/sr_soldiers.htm for more details.

\Paul

simmo · Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject:

Hi Paul

thanks for your information
I thought it was the other way around.
Pity though as I would have liked to see his records as well as my Grandfathers. Not much esle I can do.

regards

Robert Sad

simmo · Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:40 am Post subject:

Hi Anne

I have done searches on Scotlands People and have proved they are brothers/half-brothers. If you are interested I could post the whole story. It is a bit long winded.

thanks again

Robert Smile

apanderson · Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:11 am Post subject:

Hi Robert,

Yes! Please post what you have.

It's always great to read stories, no matter how long (or short) winded.

Anne