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SNWM RULES for casualties of War

 
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Keptie



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 890
Location: near Arbroath Angus

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:37 pm    Post subject: SNWM RULES for casualties of War Reply with quote

Recently I sent a file to the new Secretary to the Trustees at the Scottish National War Memorial at the Edinburgh Castle on Brechin born GUNNER 80801 David Soutar SMART , Royal Field Artillery drowned off duty but in uniform on 17th September 1914 at Norwich .
The facts are that David Soutar Smart was born at Wardhill farm Brechin as his father George Smart was the farmer and in 1911 Census David Smart was a farm servant at Reidhall Farm Brechin and on the Outbreak of the Great War he volunteered to serve as a Gunner in the RFA and was sent to Leeds to train and then onto Norwich but on 17th September 1914 the body in uniform was found in the River at Norwich by the river police of Norwich City Police and identified as Gunner Smart , 190 Battery , RFA whose parents had retired to live in Montrose in Forfarshire then. The HM Coroners inquest was held in Norwich and several of Gunner Smart's colleagues gave evidence and said that Gunner Smart had just one or two drinks while playing darts and he was cheerful at the time and he left the Pub to go back to the Cavalry Barracks in the city but did not arrive back at the Barracks . The Coroners inquest recorded the death as FOUND DROWNED . The Death Certificate records also FOUND DROWNED in the River Wensum and death dated as 17th Sept 1914.

I received a communication from Lt Col C D McGrory, secretary to the Trustees and he states the application is refused on the grounds that Gunner Smart is not in the category viz

was KILLED OR DIED as a result of a wound , injury or disease sustained
a) in the theatre of operations for which a medal has been or is awarded ; or
b) whilst on duty in Aid of the Civil Power or
c) whilst on duty in a foreign country under the direct orders of the Crown.

Deaths occurring outwith the qualifying period will only be regarded as eligible in exceptional circumstances , if al the available documentary and other evidence including the death Certificate shows clearly that death was the direct result of the wound or injury sustained or disease contracted , on active service within the qualifying periods.
Gunner Smart tragically was drowned in the UK prior to deployment overseas, he was not therefore in a Theatre of Operations for which a medal was awarded . The Verdict FOUND DROWNED does not mean the criteria of "WAS KILLED OR DIED as a direct result of a WOUND or INJURY or DISEASE SUSTANED

I am afraid that therefore that even though he has an IMPERIAL WAR GRAVES COMMISSION record , and is recorded on local Memorials , the evidence provided does not allow me to add Gunner Smart's name to the Rolls of Honour.
signed Lt Col (retd) C D McGrory ,.
secretary to the Trustees, SNWM , Edinburgh Castle


(Patrick W Anderson )
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DerekR
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 3001
Location: Hawick, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat,

What a nonsense.
I have at least two men who drowned at home, never having served abroad, who are listed on the SNWM.
I also have a man who died in a fight in Hawick and another who choked whilst in training listed.

If your man is not to be listed then I suggest that the SNWM need to trawl back through all their entries to weed-out those who do not "merit" inclusion using their rules.
Rolling Eyes
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Keptie



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 890
Location: near Arbroath Angus

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject: SNWM rules Reply with quote

Today I received another communication from Lt Col Colin McGrory , Secretary to the Trustees of the SNWM and he now informs me that all Scots Service personnel of WW1 and WW2 who died in Service , due to any cause will be included in the SNWM roll.

Seems he had a meeting with the Trustees and the former Secretaries to the Trustees Lt Col Roger J Binks and Lt Col Iain Sheppard .

Yes that meant that today I also received a notification informing me that Brechin born GUNNER 80801 David Soutar SMART , Royal Field Artillery who died 17th September 1914 and found drowned wearing his army uniform in the River at Norwich Norfolk is now included in the Roll of honour - Royal Field Artillery . (he was on the Imperial War Graves Commission index already )

I am so pleased that this matter has been resolved and that Gunner Smart is now included .

The Dundee courier Craigie page will have the initial release on the matter in tomorrows all editions newspaper ( 13 July 2019 ) and the Arbroath herald and Brechiner and Montrose Review will have the story either this week or next depending on the stories in the Johnson Press papers in Angus

Best wishes and thanks for your support as I also mentioned Derek R story and another friend in Montrose who knew of at least 4 casualties similar to Gunner Smart

Patrick w Anderson
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4947
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds like good news to me.

Well done to those who had an input.

\Paul
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Keptie



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 890
Location: near Arbroath Angus

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: SNWM Reply with quote

I was pleased to receive a phone call from Lt Col Colin McGrory saying what he had arranged this week to resolve the matter and criteria process and I had told him that the Courier & advertiser newspaper and the Arbroath herald, the Brechiner and Montrose Review papers all were notified . The courier did a good write up in all its editions on 13th July and the angus papers of Johnson press are or should have their feature story this week . I am in the throws now of sending an update email to these newspapers so hopefully they will do an update on the good result of Brechiner Gunner David Soutar Smart , Royal Field Artillery now accepted as a casualty of the Great war and his name will be added to the website of the SNWM when its next updated in the next months or so

thanks to all for your support as I told Lt Col Colin McGrory of my worries about others listed on the index who were not battle deaths or died of wounds from battles overseas .

I thank Lt Col McGrory for stepping up to the plate and sorting it out for all and the future .

Pat w anderson
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DerekR
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Hawick, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Common sense prevails thankfully.

Well done Pat.
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