The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

apanderson · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: Another wee mystery . . . .

Not quite so intruiging as my last one but here goes . . . .

In Old Monkland Cemetery, Coatbridge, there are 2 CWGC stones for men who were in the Royal Indian Navy.

Ordinary Seaman KHALIL-UR-RAHMAN, 7302, H.M.I.S. 'Kumaon'
Died 8th December 1942
(Son of Arsha Bibi, Suradam, Rawalpindi, Pakistan)

and

Leading Telegraphist MUHAMMAD SADIQ, 3267, H.M.I.S. 'Rajputana'
Died 23rd October 1942

Both these men are listed on the CWGC Site.

I did a bit of 'googling' and it appears that the Indian Navy only really patrolled in the Indian Ocean - there's plenty of articles about both boats/ships.

My question - Why would they be buried in Coatbridge?

Anne

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject:

Anne

Not a direct help yet. In Proncynain cemetery outside Dornoch there are two Indian Army men buried:

Name: GHULAM NABI
Nationality: Indian
Rank: Driver
Regiment/Service: Royal Indian Army Service Corps
Age: 24
Date of Death: 28/09/1943
Service No: 179422
Additional information: Son of Khair Din and Said Jan, of Dhir Kot, Hazara, Pakistan.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. G. Grave 1.
Cemetery: DORNOCH (PRONCYNAIN) CEMETERY

Name: ABDUL RAKHMAN
Nationality: Indian
Rank: Naik
Regiment/Service: Royal Indian Army Service Corps
Unit Text: 7 Mule Coy.
Age: 37
Date of Death: 01/01/1944
Service No: 26929
Additional information: Son of Ali Bahadur, of Butigaram (Siri Kote), Hazara, Pakistan; husband of Rakhim Jan, of Butigaram.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. G. Grave 2.
Cemetery: DORNOCH (PRONCYNAIN) CEMETERY

Indian army soldiers did not serve in North-West Europe but they did serve in Italy. I believe these men died in mountain training before their units went to Italy.

I know your men are Navy and not Army but it does show that Indian personel were in Scotland during the war for training.

Are your men buried in a plot which contains other Indian / Pakistani burials? Did Coatbridge have the only muslim burial plot in South-West Scotland in 1943?

There were several naval establishments on the West coast of Scotland involved in training. Perhaps HMISs 'Kumaon' and 'Rajputana' were in Scotland for training.

Another thought occurs. Perhaps these ships were built on the Clyde or were ex-RN ships refitted on the Clyde for the RIN and these men were shipped over to crew them direct from the Clyde?

Just a few ideas to start the ball rolling.

Adam

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject:

From U-boatnet.com

HMIS Rajputana (J 197)
Minesweeper of the Bangor class

Navy: The Royal Indian Navy
Type: Minesweeper
Class: Bangor
Pennant: J 197
Built by: Lobnitz & Co. Ltd. (Renfrew, Scotland)
Ordered:
Laid down: 21 Jun, 1941
Launched: 31 Dec, 1941
Commissioned: 30 Apr, 1942
End service:
Loss position: ,

History: Scrapped in 1961.
Former name: HMS Lyme Regis (Never commissioned in the Royal Navy. Transferred to the Royal Indian Navy before completion).

Note she was built on the Clyde and was Commissioned in Spring 1942. Before she saw service in the Indian ocean I'll bet she did some anti-submarine training on Scotland's West coast.

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject:

and the other one..

HMIS Kumaon (J 164)
Minesweeper of the Bangor class

Navy: The Royal Indian Navy
Type: Minesweeper
Class: Bangor
Pennant: J 164
Built by: William Hamilton & Co. (Port Glasgow, Scotland) : Parsons
Ordered:
Laid down: 12 Dec, 1940
Launched: 2 May, 1942
Commissioned: 30 Nov, 1942
End service:
Loss position: ,

History: Scrapped in 1949.
Former name: HMS Middlesborough (Never commissioned in the Royal Navy. Transferred to the Royal Indian Navy before completion).

Again Clyde built and commissioned in 1942.

Adam Brown · Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject:

Anne

When I was looking through Google for information on these men I saw you already posted this information on the Great War Forum.
The GWF cannot be beaten for WW1 stuff but when it comes to WW2 where do you go?
That's where this forum comes into it's own. and not just WW2 but post-1945 and Boer War and earlier.
All out of scope on the GWF, but open for discussion here.

I hope you've got a few more for us.

Regards

Adam

apanderson · Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject:

I'll see what I can do - I think half the time I'm too nosey for my own good.

You'll probably see me getting into trouble on GWF as I keep (well now and again) askng about things from WW2. Wink

I keep my fingers crossed that someone sees it and manages to answer before the plug gets pulled - some of the people on there have amazing knowledge and advice for amateurs like me so it's always worth a wee row now and again!

Anne

spoons · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject:

As this seems to be an Indian graves thread, I thought that you might be interested in the following article published in the Sunday Post on 9 Sep 2007.

apanderson · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject:

Congratulations on your 1000th post Paul!!!

I couldn't think of a better subject than to make this one special. It brought a wee lump to my throat.

Thank you.

Anne

spoons · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject:

I never noticed (1,000 I mean). I meant to mention that something other than a cross might be more appropriate on these particular graves but I think they would appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.

\Paul

Adam Brown · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject:

I also felt it was a bit insensitive to put a cross on a muslim grave but it seems churlish to criticise the woman for what she has done over all these years.

Adam

spoons · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject:

I sometimes place a stone on a grave or memorial to show I was there and thinking of them - a Jewish tradition which I quite like. No Jewish blood in my background as far as I know, but you never know. Very Happy

\Paul