The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project
(Registered Scottish Charity No. SC043826). Please visit our homepage at www.scottishmilitaryresearch.co.uk
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Tarff UF Church WW1 (part Lost)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> Dumfries & Galloway - Church Memorials
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Tarff UF Church WW1 (part Lost) Reply with quote

Not listed on UKNIWM

Location - in storage at the former Tarff Parish Church (originally Tarff United Free Church), now a private house. OS Map Ref NX 683 562.

For a long time I believed this memorial to be lost but was relieved to find that it still exists.

Tarff church was closed in 1988 and the WW2 wooden plaque memorial was moved to Twynholm church which is now the parish church for the area. At least two local people separately told me that the WW1 memorial used to be a window, it was no longer in the church and was removed by the church of Scotland to Edinburgh prior to the church being sold.

I contacted the Church of Scotland in Edinburgh who checked their records and told me they have no record of any windows being removed prior to sale and furthermore there was no storage or suitable place in Edinburgh for them to be moved to. They were unlikely to have moved such a memorial out of its area.

I then visited the former Tarff Church (now private residence) and knocked on the door with fingers firmly crossed. I was met by the very helpful lady of the house who told me that she and her husband were the second owners of the church since its sale and she believed that two small windows were removed by the church, a third larger window was essentially destroyed and had to be disposed of but the WW1 memorial was almost entirely intact. It was necessary to remove the window to make the property watertight. She and her husband had removed the four panels and had them in storage in a temporary workshop pending a decision on what to do with them (and awaiting funds). At significant inconvenience to herself, she allowed me to take each panel into the light to photograph them (unfortunately with a doorframe casting partial shadows).

I have done my best with the photos I took and put them together in an attempt to give some idea of the overall effect. I neglected to take measurements but the total window must be in the order of eight feet high. The owners current thoughts are that they might reassemble the window and install it in a light box for display in their hallway but that would not be for some time.

The window was created by Tina Adamson in 1920. (edit - this should be Una Adamson)

Now for the bad news, there is one pane missing and this had two of the four surnames on it and I have not yet found a record of the names. The names which are present are Alexander McColm and Charles R Murray. The missing names are David M????? and William ?????. The first two are listed on the Ringford/Tongland civic memorial and if the other two are also listed on the same civic memorial (a big assumption) then they would be either David Murdoch or David McLelland and either William Simpson or William McQueen. I intend to continue searching the local newspaper archives in hope of finding a record of the unveiling and failing that an appeal in the local paper to see if anyone has a record of the missing names. Any other thoughts?















Last edited by spoons on Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:13 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name: McCOLM, ALEXANDER
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
Unit Text: 8th Bn.
Date of Death: 09/07/1916
Service No: S/6551
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 10 A.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL


Name: MURRAY
Initials: C R
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: King's Own Scottish Borderers
Unit Text: 9th Bn. attd. 7th/8th Bn.
Date of Death: 18/09/1916
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 4 A and 4 D.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kelsa



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Originally Ayrshire, now USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The artist is actually Una Adamson, who trained at Glasgow School of Art. This is the first window I have come across by her - great that you found it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking again, I agree it is Una Adamson.

If you would like hi-res photos, please PM me your email and I will be glad to send them.

If there are any records that have survived of Una's work, could you see if there is any record of the names?

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Info sent to Church of Scotland and UKNIWM (with photos).

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 4489
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul.
I've just run across details of this church at:
http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/64011/photographs/tarff+free+church+and+burial+ground/
The site of the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland.
There is reference to two windows.
One with the names Alexander McColm, Charles Murray and DAVID MURDOCH.
Oddly no reference to a fourth name.
The other had the names - James Armstrong, John Carnochay (sic), Adam Hastings and Joseph Ireland.

Also there is reference to a burial ground.
_________________
Ken
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Brown
Curator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7369
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great to confirm David Murdoch but frustrating that it doesn't give details of the fourth name and it means another window is missing!

Thanks

Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JMB



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenneth Morrison wrote:
Paul.
I've just run across details of this church at:
http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/64011/photographs/tarff+free+church+and+burial+ground/
The site of the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Scotland.
There is reference to two windows.
One with the names Alexander McColm, Charles Murray and DAVID MURDOCH.
Oddly no reference to a fourth name.
The other had the names - James Armstrong, John Carnochay (sic), Adam Hastings and Joseph Ireland.

Also there is reference to a burial ground.


I got your message but I can't send a Private Message so can you EMail me - see website http://www.mbriscoe.me.uk

MB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Adam Brown
Curator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7369
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JMB wrote:
...but I can't send a Private Message


Martin

Please try sending a PM now.

Thanks

Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have sent to RCAHMS for copies of the photos of 2 windows but have not yet heard anything back.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A photo of the missing memorial can be seen at http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/64011/details/tarff+free+church+and+burial+ground/

I don't see any point in purchasing it as the license won't let me post it here but at least you can see what it looked like before it was lost.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
stuartn



Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This memorial was entered onto the WMR/UKNIWM database on 26/10/2015 as memorial 69512.
I have cleaned up that report today.

There was a technical issue with the photographs, and I have asked the office whether that is resolved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4816
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

photos replaced

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> Dumfries & Galloway - Church Memorials All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com