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John Russell Millar Eng Lt

 
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dalblair



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Posts: 564
Location: coupar angus

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:19 am    Post subject: John Russell Millar Eng Lt Reply with quote

I can find little about this man-he is listed in the Morgan Academy ROH as having died on 5th July 1915 when his ship was sunk by a mine.He is not on CWGC or Navalnet that i can see and i can`t see a ship sunk on that date either.He was the son of TM Millar,Glenvarloch,6 Argyle Street,Dundee and had a youger brother Douglas who was killed at Thiepval.
Any help/pointers gratefully accepted.
Hugh
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tanyagar



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
Posts: 121
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Ancestry, there's a John R Millar in the UK naval medal and award rolls with what looks like a date of death of 5/7/1915 in the remarks column. He's ranked Engr, with "Valiant" in the column headed 'No.' Could that be your ship?
Tanya
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were two Valiants in the First World War. HMS Valiant was a battleship which didn't enter service until 1916 and HM Yacht Valiant II which was in service in 1915 and was involved in a collision in May 1915. It didn't sink though.

I can find nothing online for a merchant vessel called Valiant involved in any incident in 1915.

I did a search on the CWGC for Millers and Millar and for aliases on and around 5th July 1915 and came up blank too.

Thanks

Adam
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A further search on the CWGC database shows that the only naval deaths on 5th July 1915 were sailors in the Royal Naval Division at Gallipoli.

The Dundee Roll of Honour has an entry for:

Miller John R., Sub-Lieutenant Engineer, Royal Naval Reserve

Sub Lieutenant Engineer seems to be an RNR rank looking at other entries in the CWGC database

I've downloaded a spreadsheet from the CWGC website of all the naval entries for the First World War and I can find no entry which could be Sub-Lt Engr Miller. There's nothing close for rank, unit, surname, firstname, date of death etc which I can see.

I would suggest that Sub-Lt Engr Miller is a Non-Com and any evidence of his service and death - if it can be found - shouldbe forwarded to the CWGC.

Adam
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dalblair



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Posts: 564
Location: coupar angus

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanya/Adam,
Thanks for the suggestions.One of the problems is the total lack of any evidence about his service/death so far.Is there a crew list for HM Valiant II? It might be possible that he died when it was struck by a mine without sinking?
I`ll keep digging with the local sources but so far no joy!
Hugh
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dalblair



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Posts: 564
Location: coupar angus

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have come across more information which seems to indicate that he died at Gosport on 5th July-i suspect from flu- would still expect to see him in CWGC.
Are there other ways of checking hospital deaths?
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 7749
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hugh - FreeBMD has a death of JOHN R MILLAR age 29 in the July - September Quarter of 1915 at Alverstoke, Hampshire
[Volume 2b page 597]

This registration district became part of Gosport in 1932 so it's in the right area.
Sending for his Death Certificate may be the only way forward.
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 7749
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1911 census John Roger Millar, Engineer Marine, age 25 born Dundee and his wife Daisy Emily (Attrill) Millar (who he married in 1910 in Southampton) were living with her parents John and Emily Attrill at 72 New Road, Southampton.

1901 census at Baxter Park Terrace, Dundee
Thomas M Millar 46
Jane R Millar 46
Mary R Millar 20
John R Millar 15
Nelly C Millar 13
Thomas A Millar 11
Douglas A Millar 8

I'm beginning to wonder if he was serving in the Mercantile Marine when he died and so wouldn't qualify for inclusion on the CWGC Register Confused
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Ken
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an Index of Wills on Ancestry which includes:
MILLAR John Roger of 72 New Road, Southampton, marine engineer, died 5 July 1915 at 65 St. Edward's Road, Alverstoke, Hampshire.
Probate Winchester 24 September to Daisy Emily Millar widow. Effects £227 10s 3d.
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Ken
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dundee Courier 24/7/1916 p.4 has a report on the death of 2nd Lt Douglas Archibald Millar. The report finishes with "This is the second bereavement ...........Their eldest son Engineer John R. Millar, who was 29 years of age, died in hospital from injuries sustained as the result of his vessel being mined."
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Ken
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dalblair



Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Posts: 564
Location: coupar angus

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,
Fantastic digging!! I now have much more flesh on the bones of this man.
I don`t quite understand why he is not on CWGC as many Marine men are but presumably if his dc corroborates the courier article i can submit him for inclusion.
Many Thanks
Hugh
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