The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

apanderson

See also Bo'ness Civic Memorial thread here: http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=2822

The jist .....

Found a family stone in Bo'ness Cemetery, Section BN, Lair 17.
(Burial confirmed by Falkirk Council Cemeteries Dept. of Frank Watson age 25 on 8th December, son of Andrew & Elizabeth Watson

Listed on stone is:
Pte Andrew Watson, (375295, Royal Scots) killed in action 22nd March 1918, age 26, husband of Elizabeth McCarroll.

Andrew is commemorated on Pozieres Memorial

Then in 1942, his son Francis is listed as having been killed on active service at Rosyth on 4th December.

Couldn't find Francis/Frank or F. Watson on CWGC but found him on SNWM as follows:

Fireman, Merchant Navy, S.S. “War Afridi”.

He is not listed on Bo’ness Civic Memorial.

His death registration confirms all personal details and his occupation is listed as Merchant Seaman and that his death was caused from a fractured skull after falling from 'height' at Rosyth Dockyards, Dunfermline.

There is an R.C.E., but it gives no further details, only verifies the info on the death registration.

I'm waiting to hear from West Lothian Archives if there were any newspapers specific to Bo'ness which might have carried a story and also Falkirk Archives to see if the Falkirk Herald had anything. (Falkirk Archives have the Falkirk Herald on microfilm).

I've added this info to the end of the Bo'ness Civic Memoral thread also in case anyone visiting that particular page sees that rather than is looking through this thread.

Anne

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Anne

Francis Watson cannot qualify for CWGC / War Grave status.
As a member of the Mercantile Marine he was actually a Civilian, and so was never on " active service ". I appreciate that might be what is on the stone, but it is factually wrong , although families and newspapers liked to make the military connection sometimes.
Had he died due to enemy actions that would be different, but it appears he died of normal occupation risks if he fell on board his ship or elsewhere in connection with his duties.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

apanderson · Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject:

Thanks for replying Jim.

Why do you think he's listed on SNWM?

Would it simply because he was in the Merchant Service?

Anne

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:23 am Post subject:

Is it because the SS War Afridi was a "Freighting Tanker" of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary?
See - http://www.historicalrfa.org/rfa-war-afridi-ships-details
As far as I remember crew of the RFA are sort of half-way between civilian and military.
_________________
Ken

apanderson · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:39 am Post subject:

Thanks for your input Ken.

Sort of halfway between civilian and military meaning that they were halfway to being commemorated too I suppose. Laughing

(Only being listed on SNWM!)

Anne

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Anne

Royal Fleet Auxilliary crew were civilians. As you pointed out he is listed as Merchant Seaman on his death certificate.
I have no idea why he is on SNWM. Their own criteria suggest he should not be, however it may depend on how they interpreted (a) and (b).

"A member of the Armed Forces of the Crown or of the Merchant Navy who was either a Scotsman (i.e. born in Scotland or who had a Scottish born father or Mother) or served in a Scottish Regiment and was killed or died (except as a result of suicide) as a result of a wound, injury or disease sustained (a) in a theatre of operations for which a medal has been or is awarded; or (b) whilst on duty in aid of the Civil Power."

There is no connection between being listed by SNWM and classed as war dead by MOD / CWGC.
Certainly he did not die due to hostilities and so does not qualify as a " war death".

There is no " halfway to being commemorated " as war dead, he either does, or does not, qualify.
Even as a WW2 civilian walking the streets he qualifies for adding to the Roll, if he died due to increased war risks, but not if he fell from a bus or the like.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

apanderson · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:39 pm Post subject:

OK Jim.

I can completely understand why 'criterias' had to be adhered to, but when you find someone in this situation who is listed in SMWN's database, then he was considered by someone somewhere to have qualified.

Not that I'd like to see his name removed, but rules are (supposed to be) rules!

Anne Confused

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Anne

I suspect simply being in the Mercantile Marine has allowed him, maybe correctly, to be included on SNWM.

There are likely quite a number on SWNM who should not be there, ( same true on some war memorials ), similarly there are a small number of WW1 casualties from the early days which CWGC have sort of " inherited " which do not meet their criteria. However, although not on the Register they maintain their graves, and as you suggest, it would be entirely wrong to cease to do so, or remove an existing record after all these years.

Of more concern to me are the many thousands from WW1 who must be missng from the SNWM Roll. I am personally aware of around 1000 who, without doubt, qualify.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk