The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

Kenneth Morrison

I really need some help with this one - on New Abbey WW1 Memorial.

The inscription reads THOMAS TELFER : DRUMBURN : 12 HLI

The Stewartry RoH has two entries - one for Thomas Telfer of New Abbey but no details - and one for
T. Telfer of Drumburn, New Abbey. Enlisted HLI. Served on Western Front. Killed in action March 1918.

The only Thomas Telfer, HLI, I can find listed by CWGC/SNWM is Pte. (31136) of 14th Bn. HLI. Died 28/11/1917.
Born Morton, Dumfriesshire.

From what I can work out, the 12th HLI were in action in March 1918 at Bapaume 24/25th and at Arras 28th (15th Division) so a KIA then is possible.

I've tried local newspapers but no luck. Any ideas?
_________________
Ken

spoons · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't rule out this man

Name: TELFER
Initials: T
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Seaforth Highlanders
Unit Text: 6th Bn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 23/03/1918
Service No: 267484
Additional information: Son of Thomas and Elliott Telfer, of Angram, Pateley Bridge, Harrogate.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. A. 5.
Cemetery: GREVILLERS BRITISH CEMETERY

I know the Regiment differs and there is no obvious link to New Abbey but the name and date fit just fine. Perhaps he could have been attached to a different regiment and have been working away from home - his age is right for a journeyman.

\Paul

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject:

The Medal Index card confirms that the Seaforth is Thomas Telfer but doesn't show any previous service in the HLI.

spoons · Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject:

I think this may be your man from the 1901 census - Troqueer is the next parish to New Abbey.

Name: Thomas Brown Telfer
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Lochmbon, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 882
Registration district: Troqueer
Civil parish: Troqueer
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Sloan's Yard
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 48
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1901_440
Household Members: Name Age
George Telfer 37
Elizabeth Telfer 38
William Richardson 15
Thomas Brown Telfer 2
David Telfer 9 moths
John Burns 34

so that rules out my man from pately bridge because the parents don't match

\Paul

Stewartry · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham

I don't think it is either of the two men mentioned so far. The report of his death was published in the KA, 12th Apr 1918, page 4:

Private T. Telfer, H.L.I., son of Mr [R]. Telfer, Locharbriggs, killed in action in France, was previous to enlisting employed as a wood forester on Cavens estate in Kirkbean and Newabbey. His widow and three children reside at Drumburn, Newabbey.

My copy has a blemish around the father's initial but I think it is an 'R'. Having three children would (should) rule out Thomas Brown Telfer, born abt 1899, and working in and around the area (as well as the father's initial) will rule out 267484 T Telfer, Seaforths.

The 1891 census has a contender:

Name: Thomas Elliot Telfer
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Where born: Sanquhar, Dumfriesshire
Civil parish: New Abbey
Address: Overton Cottage
Robert Telfer 26
Mary Ann Telfer 24
Joseph Telfer 4
Thomas Elliot Telfer 2
James Telfer

Doesn't help with the lack of military/CWGC details though!

All the best,

Stuart
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:15 pm Post subject:

Thanks ever so much for your efforts on the one. I think Stuart's is the most likely.
I'll keep digging locally - I'm beginning to wonder if he survived?
I've flogged Geoff's search engine to death but all I'm sure of is that 75 men of the 12th HLI were lost in March 1918 and 73 of them were between 24 -30 March. The only Thomas who might bear investigation is Thomas McQuaker (41746) formerly (27023) KOSB, died 25/3/1918 but......
(the crunching noise you can hear is straws being clutched)

Thanks again
_________________
Ken

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject:

OK - it is Thomas Elliot Telfer.

Thomas Telfer, a Forester, age 23, married Janet Robertson Kirkpatrick at Ladywell, Kirkbean on 1st December 1911.
Father - Robert Telfer a ploughman
Mother - Mary Ann Telfer ms. Elliot.
They had three children, all born in New Abbey Parish.
1912 - Robert Telfer
1914 - Denham Kirkpatrick Telfer
1915 - Janet Kirkpatrick Telfer

Thomas was born in Sanquhar in 1888.
Janet, his wife, died in Dumfries in 1982 age 91.

All of the above ties-in with the entry in the Stewartry Roll of Honour and with the newspaper report (12 April) of his death - KIA March 1918.

I've tried most of the surnames above in case of an alias but......
Help!
_________________
Ken

spoons · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject:

baffles me, perhaps he served under a different name - but why? can't find him even if we assume the regiment is wrong. Could he be a non-commemoration?

\Paul

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

The Scotsman, 15th April 1918
TELFER - Died of Wounds on 23rd March, L. Cpl. Thos. Telfer, Seaforth Highlanders, aged 24, only son of Thos. and Elliot Telfer, Angram, Pateley Bridge, Horrogate, late of Newmains, Douglas, Lanarkshire.

Telfer is not a particularly common name and a woman named Elliot even less so. There are only two Thomas Telford shown died overseas, the man above and a POW. The only HLI man is 31136 above. If he is a non comm it looks impossible to prove.
Local papers might add more.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

spoons · Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject:

that's the man I identified in my second post but cannot make any connection to New Abbey and if his age is correct at 24 then his first child was born when he was 16 which seems unlikely.

\Paul

Kenneth Morrison · Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject:

The sons of Thomas and Janet Telfer:
Robert is named for his paternal grandfather - Robert Telford
Denham is named for his maternal grandfather - Denham Kirkpatrick.
_________________
Ken

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

I checked the Douglas memorial and found two Telfers there, but not Thomas (267484 ) who was linked there in the Scotsman.
Their details show that memorial details are not always reliable, both are shown as Pte. H.L.I.

Name: TELFER, WILLIAM
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Infantry)
Unit Text: "B" Coy 9th Bn.
Age: 36
Date of Death: 26/04/1918
Service No: 18595
Additional information: Son of the late Thomas and Helen Telfer, of Douglas; husband of Mary Francis Telfer, of Town Hall, Douglas, Lanarkshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: III. D. 16.
Cemetery: HARINGHE (BANDAGHEM) MILITARY CEMETERY

Name: TELFER, DAVID
Initials: D
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Royal Scots
Unit Text: 1st/7th Bn.
Age: 21
Date of Death: 19/07/1917
Service No: 302867
Additional information: Son of Thomas and Helen Telfer, of Town Hall, Douglas, Lanarkshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 277.
Cemetery: CAIRO WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

Kenneth Morrison

Stewartry · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 274 Location: nr Nottingham

Even though he was most likely to be 31136 HLI, it is much better to be sure! Well done, Ken.
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book