The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

DelBoy

Hello all,

A guy in the pub casually mentioned he had a relation on the Arbroath war memorial, but didn't know anything about him, just that he was his great uncle. First World War casualty William Rae.
I looked up the Arbroath WW1 RoH but it had no great details or a definate date of death, just this:

L/SGT. W. RAE, BLACK WATCH.

LANCE-SERGEANT WILLIAM RAE, Black Watch, thirty years of age was the son of William Rae, 12 Church Street, Arbroath.
He was at one time a bleacher at Waulkmills, but had gone to the United States. When war broke out however he at once returned to Scotland and enlisted.
When on active service he was reported missing, and in August 1917 was officially posted as killed.

I can only find 3 W Rae's from the black watch for WW1, and only 1 died in 1917 but aged 32 with his father living in perthshire. The ranks don't match either.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=447489

Can anyone shed more light on this guy?

spoons · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject:

I cannot identify your man from CWGC or SNWM even if the Regiment is wrong, nor from any service record on Ancestry, nor on SDGW come to that. Your man is listed as L/Sgt but the 1917 death you have is 2Lt. It is very unlikely that a 2Lt would be wrongly listed as an NCO. As a rule, I look for the rank on the memorial or one (at most 2) ranks lower as people did have acting or local rank which I think is generally not shown on CWGC records.
I think a search through local papers is probably the best way forward.

\Paul

wullmackie · Joined: 27 Mar 2008 Posts: 22 Location: South Lanarkshire

Surname REA
Firstname William
Service Number 240861
Date Death 03/09/1916
Decoration
Place of birth Arbroath
Other 5th Bn.
SNWM roll
Rank L/Sgt
Theatre of death F.& F.

SDGW show the same, and enlisted Forfar, 5th Bn Black Watch
All the best
Wull

spoons · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject:

Good find. I looked for Ray but never thought of Rea Embarassed

\Paul

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

This might be him but the dates do not tie with Dels original info ie. killed August 1917

SDGW has him born Arbroath, enlisted Forfar, KIA F & F

Sadly no additional details were returned to CWGC by the NOK.

Name: REA, WILLIAM
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Serjeant
Regiment/Service: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
Unit Text: 5th Bn.
Date of Death: 03/09/1916
Service No: 240861
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 10 A.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

DelBoy · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject:

Thanks lads,

Rea instead of Rae looks quite a good fit?
I'll get down the library methinks to see if I can clear it up.

Cheers all.

spoons · Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject:

His MIC adds that he went to France on 3/9/1915 and previous Regimental Number was 3016, no other additional info.

DelBoy · Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject:

Mystery Solved

I had a look through the newspapers trancriptions collated by the Arbroath British Legion relating local war casulaties and war awards.

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=5336&highlight=

The source of the confusion seems to be the year delay between date he went missing and date the family were given as when he was presumed dead.
This still doesn't explain the surname difference.

spoons · Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject:

Pretty sure he served as Rea, although no service record survives, Rea is what is on his MIC.

\Paul

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Derek

What is the date of the publication you show?

Men were usually posted missing in the field, later missing presumed dead and later still confirmed died.
The date given is usually on, or after, the date the man went missing from the Roll.

William Rea, age 28 is recorded as died " on or since " 3rd September 1916 - missing presumed dead. Interestingly he is officially recorded as 3016, his original TF number. He must have still been missing in Spring 1917 when the 240861 was allocated to him.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

DelBoy · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject:

Jim,

The transcription is from a September 1917 copy of the Arbroath Guide.

Derek.

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Derek

Thanks, that ties with numbering as detailed above. It could be that info from a returned POW, or the like, came to hand then to let them list him officially as " missing presumed dead "

The Roll of Honour is missleading. The August 1917 detail it gives was the date the 1916 death was officially confirmed to the NOK.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

DelBoy · Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject:

It was cetainly a little mystery, I'll be able to pass on what you've all helped me find out to the guy tonight.

Incidentally the lad says the family still have the Death Penny.