The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

DerekR

The name of James Scott appears on the Hawick Roll of Honour.

A local Hawick newspaper states that a Drummer JAMES Scott, 1st KOSB, died of wounds at Gallipoli.
The name JAMES is reinforced in the "Scotsman" newspaper and again he is a drummer.
I find a Medal Index Card for a drummer JAMES Scott, 1st KOSB, died of wounds - his number is given as 9526.

Where things start going astray is in the CWGC information, SDGW & SNWM for no.9526, Drummer, 1st Bn. KOSB, surname of Scott.
JAMES Scott has now become John Leitch Mitchell Scott

Name: SCOTT, JOHN LEITCH MITCHELL
Initials: J L M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: King's Own Scottish Borderers
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 06/06/1915
Service No: 9526
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 84 to 92 or 220 to 222.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL

Can anyone give me a pointer where to look next as I find it rather strange to have 3 reports of his name being JAMES and the 3 "official" sources giving the name as JOHN LEITCH MITCHELL Scott.
Both cannot be correct but the service number is the same as is the "Drummer".

I've posted a portrait here:
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114353
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

apanderson · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject:

Have you got an age for him Derek?

You could try and find him on the 1901 Census and if you can I.D. him, then look for a Birth Certificate on Scotland's People.

Anne

*Added Later* I had a look at the 1901 Census and there's umpteen possibilities.

James, age 5 (born c1896), son of William & Elizabeth, 34 & 36 High St., Hawick
James, age 5 (born c1896), grandson of Isabella Kyle, 8 Round Close, Hawick
James, age 7 (born 1894), son of Thomas & Mary, 5 Laidlaw Terrace, Hawick
John, age 11 (born c1890), son of of Susan, 28 Trinity Street, Hawick

gourdongirl · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: John or James?

Happy New Year Derek!

I hope to spend some time in the Records Office in Edinburgh sometime in the next couple of weeks, so would be happy to do some searching there for you. If this is an option PM me with the details that you have and I will see what I can do. I have read the stuff on the 1914-1918 forum, so would also look for any other family conections that might help solve the name problem.

Shona

apanderson · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject:

Had a wee look on GWF and noticed he was 30 years old (making his DOB c1885)

John, age 16 (born c1885), Cabinet Maker Apprentice, son of Adam & Jessie, 1 Garpield Street, Hawick.
John, age 17 (born c1884), Grocer's Assistant, son of Robert & Margaret, 9 Havelock Street, Hawick.
John, age 15, (born c1886), Banker to Warper, Tweed, son of Adam & Jessie, 20 Dickson Street, Hawick.
John, age 15, (born c1886), Farmer's son, son of Andrew & Mary, Calaburn farm, Hawick

James, age 16 (born c1885), Mill Worker, Worsted, nephew of Henry & Jessie Scott, 6 Weenlsland Road, Hawick.
James, age 17 (born c1884), Jaidors's Apprentice??, son of James & Annie, 13 Wilson Crescent, Hawick (born in England)

The above are from Ancestry so I've typed the details as they appear.

Anne

apanderson · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject:

Back again!

on the 1901 Census, living at 28 Trinity Street, we have the Thomas & Agnes Scott & their family.

Thomas - age 43
Agnes - age 42
Betsy - age 21
Robert - age 19
Henry - age 13
Thomas - age 12
Agnes - age 8
Katie - age 6

Bit of a gap between Robert & Henry - maybe this is where wee John or James fits in? But . . . . . also at 28 Trinity Street is a John aged 11 son of Susan Scott??

There are no Harrys listed in 1901 - only Henrys.

Anne

DerekR · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:33 am Post subject:

Girls,
Thanks for your help and time trying to trace this man.
I've been quite unable to get a positive census return for him, looking at John or James' born in the Glasgow area. I've had more chance of success looking for his brother "Harry" as there are surprisingly far fewer in number. But even then I can't find a census marrying the names all up together.
I can't find a Hawick link at all. Far too common a name to be able to pinpoint.
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

spoons · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:21 am Post subject:

I've been thinking perhaps John and James were alternative names for the same man but neither is an obvious alternative for the other, nor is it a case of someone using their second name rather than their first. Plenty of people are known by friends and family by a name different than their official one so don't rule that out. My own son (Simon David) is known to his mates as Denn. The 1911 census will be a good resource for such queries when available - I understand that it will be on subscription release on Findmypast.com sometime this year - anyone know details?

\Paul

DerekR · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject:

Yes, I've considered that he was known by "James" and that he must have attested with that name to get his MIC with "James" on it.
Hmmmmmmm - this one is going to bug me for a while.
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

DerekR · Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject:

It's still bugging me...................
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

suzebain · Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 39

Couldn't find a birth for a 'John Leitch Scott' on Scotlands People, but lo and behold there is one for a JAMES Leitch Mitchell Scott:

1st March 1885 at New City Road, Glasgow (district of Kelvin)
Parents:
Robert Scott, Sergeant, Cameronian Scottish Rifles (Domicile: Barracks, Hamilton)
Elizabeth Scott m/s Ferguson

DerekR · Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject:

Susan,
That's him - it has to be!

I have a newspaper report that states:

"Drummer James Scott.....son of the late Col-Sgt Robert Scott of the Scottish Rifles".

That is just too much of a coincidence.
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject:

Suzebain,

Top sleuthing, well done.

David McNay · Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject:

Probably worth contacting CWGC to get them to check their records - might be that he is listed under the correct name and the online database is in error. If not then we should submit what evidence we have in order to get it corrected.

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

These are the original details in the Helles Memorial register and will repeat the details provided to IWGC (CWGC )by the Army.
He was buried at sea.

The basic detail confirms his NOK did not provide additional information to IWGC during verification.

I notice that the MIC ( not an Army Record) has originally been J, later made to James and advises he Died of Wounds.

Name: SCOTT, JOHN LEITCH MITCHELL
Initials: J L M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: King's Own Scottish Borderers
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Date of Death: 06/06/1915
Service No: 9526
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 84 to 92 or 220 to 222.
Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk