The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

apanderson · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Unique?

Having just posted this photo on the War Graves Forum, I though I'd bring everybody's attention to it on this Forum.

This is the first time I have ever seen two men killed on the same day, but unrelated, commemorated together on a family stone albiet a CWGC Burial for Richard Bell Stewart

The stone is in Tollcross Cemetery, Glasgow.

Name: STEWART, RICHARD BELL
Initials: R B
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Flight Sergeant (Pilot)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 254 Sqdn.
Age: 22
Date of Death: 11/03/1945
Service No: 1564773
Additional information: Son of Allan and Margaret Bell Stewart, of Glasgow.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. M. Grave 22.
Cemetery: TOLLCROSS (CENTRAL) CHURCHYARD

Name: LANGLEY, EDWARD CHARLES PAKES (TEDDY)
Initials: E C P
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Flight Sergeant (Nav./W.Op.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 254 Sqdn.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 11/03/1945
Service No: 1397314
Additional information: Son of Edward and Lila Alice Langley, of Rottingdean, Brighton.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Cemetery: ROTTINGDEAN (ST. MARGARET) CHURCHYARD

I though it was very touching that the Stewart family chose to add Edward Langley's name. I wonder if the stone in Rottingdean Churchyard is the same?

Anne

DerekR · Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject:

Anne,

It is certainly unique to have the 2 names on the same headstone.

I have one posted on the Lamlash, Arran thread on the War Graves site which shows the names of the fellow crewmen who died the same day:

An unusual grave which also commemorates the lives of 2 others from the Fleet Air Arm on a plaque in front of the headstone:

Norman Alfred Dennis
David Meats
Geoffrey Bertram Camp

http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=552&start=0&mforum=scottishwargraves
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

DelBoy · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:19 pm Post subject:

Hi Anne, I seen some family stones that appear to have war casualties lettering maintained also.
I suppose the CWGC folks do this if they happen to spot one and aren't pressed for time?

There's a rather mucky one at Montrose which also has the pilot and navigator on the same stone. I wonder why not two seperate headstones?

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Delboy

This grave contains the remains of Blackman and Sutcliffe. They were members of the seven man crew of a Whitley V, serial Z6933 of 19 OTU which was on a combined night dual and wireless procedures exercise out of RAF Kinloss, Morayshire when it crashed in the Finalty Hill area near Kirriemuir.
Although the aircraft was lost on 24th March 1942 it was not found until 5th June. The crew's remains were recovered and interred at Montrose ( Sleepyhillock) Cemetery.

In the case of remains being unidentifiable ( due to fire, etc, ) it is normal for more than one set of remains to be buried together. In this case they will have known who they were ( possibly due to their position in the aircraft ) but not been able to identify them individually.
Flint and Wheatley are buried together in the adjoining grave.

This one has raised another query for me which I am following up. Thanks for posting the photo.

The Whitley crew were:
P/O R E Wheatley DFM
Sgt D F Drake RCAF
Sgt G K MacRae RCAF
P/0R R Flint
Sgt F Jennings
Sgt A Blackman
Sgt J Sutcliffe

P/O Wheatley, the instructor, had served with 77 Sqn and details of his award had been published in the London Gazette on 24 October 1941. P/O Flint, a Batchelor of Arts (Honours) graduate from London University, was a qualified observer and air gunner, a quite unusual combination of trades.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

apanderson · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:44 am Post subject:

Just to add . . . . .

On my travels I've come across dozens of Standard CWGC Stones bearing the names of brothers whether their deaths have been close or not.

Obviously there are many hundreds (or probably thousands) of Family Stones bearing the names of brothers, cousins, uncles, fathers & sons and other types of relations.

My point was only to illustrate that this particular Family were thoughtful enough to include another completely unrelated man just because he was killed on the same occasion as their son. The 'Multi' CWGC stones here, there and everywhere can, and do incude multiple completely unrelated men for many different reasons.

Anne

David McNay

Interesting stuff, what's the source of this information?

spoons · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject:

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

apanderson · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject:

Well, I could, but it would take me an eternity to go through thousands and thousands of photos!

One example can be seen here: http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=140&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195&mforum=scottishwargraves

Riddrie Park Cemetery, Glasgow, Page 14 on thread

Anne

spoons · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject:

RBA Marshall's grave in Stranraer, also commemorates his father, although I do not think he is buried there.http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=368&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&mforum=scottishwargraves

and John Allan at Annan whose stone commemorates both his father and mother http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=261&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&mforum=scottishwargraves

RP Galloway at Dornock has his wife listed. http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=265&mforum=scottishwargraves

\Paul

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Anne

Thank you for the details of the McAulay stone. It is a most interesting example since one casualty died a few days after the war started whilst the other died two years after it ended.

They are father and son. Joseph McAulay died of asphxia in a Glasgow school whilst in the Army. His son, Hugh McDonald McAulay certainly died of war related causes having been discharged in July 1918. He entered service overseas in the Balkans theatre in 1915. His death was linked to Malaria which was rife there. He could not have caught it at Home.

The grave may well have had a private headstone originally, later replaced by the CWGC stone post 1920.

It is also interesting, but sad, that the NOK provided full details for the father to CWGC, but none for his son. The reasons why this came about are many and varied.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk

kinnethmont · Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1649 Location: Aberdeenshire

Paul

Marshall's father could well be buried there. These are private graves, although CWGC have erected a headstone over them.

All are examples of family member details being added in the area intended for a Personal Inscription. This can still happen, although as then, the permission of CWGC is required with the NOK arranging and funding the alteration.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk