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War memorials at Colvend, Dumfries and Galloway

 
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 4738
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: War memorials at Colvend, Dumfries and Galloway Reply with quote

Hi Folks - I am very new to your project but I have been researching those named on the memorials in my local churchyard at Colvend.

If anyone has already done this or wants the information I have, please let me know.

Can anyone tell me how the list of names were compliled to be engraved?

I've recently found, on a family gravestone, a young man who died at Arnhem but whose name does not appear on the War Memorial - is this common?
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DerekR
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Hawick, Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,
If you look through other threads, we're starting to gather as much information on each individual man (or woman) as possible. So, for instance, if you'd be happy to, for each name listed at Colvend, you could add a seperate entry for each individual, list what you have and hope that others could add the like of family details, portraits, grave pics etc.

There was no uniform method of collating names to be recorded on war memorials.
In the case of Hawick, the librarian was asked to be the focal point of collecting names - but if no one put a name forward then that individual was missed out. Sad but true.
Selkirk was different again, an individual had to be either born in the town or have lived there for a certain amount of time before their names could be added - but there are recorded instances of names not being added due to apathy.

It is not uncommon to find names that are missed off memorials BUT it is less common for the Second World War (where there were fewer casualties and a precedent for collecting names had already been established from the previous war) to be omitted.
But we are all concerned to see that these "missing" or omitted are commemorated.
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stewartry is definately your man for WW1 and KOSB names, he may have info on WW2 names also. One common reason for men not being listed on a memorial where you would expect them is that arrangements may have already been made to have them listed somewhere else, a nearby memorial or where their family had long term ties etc.

Please let us know the names you are looking into, a couple of us are itching to have a go Very Happy

\Paul
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 4738
Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Colvend War Memorials - looking for info. Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies - If I've been a bit slow getting back it's because I've been trying to find my original post and then realised I was on the Graves Project site and not this one Rolling Eyes

Anyway the people I'm looking for info on are:

Milligan, John - Pte. RSF - 12 Oct 1916
on the military-geneology.com website his residence is shown as Colvend but I can find no trace of him or family.

McLellan, John - Pte. Gordon Highlanders - 19 Dec 1915
CWGC shows McClelland, John of 1st Batt. GH with this date

McVinnie, Robert U - Sapper RE - 11 Nov 1915
there is no CWGC entry but I think this might be Robert Wallace McVinnie born 1888 in Hollywood, Dumfries and who lived with his mother in Kippford, Colvend in 1901.

and the person I've posted in the "other place"

Blyth, James - Pte KOSB - 27 April 1920

I'll post the WW2 people later - I've just be called for lunch!!

Ken
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apanderson
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ken,

John Milligan is listed on SNWM - 2nd Bn. R.S.F., same date of death.

Like you, can't find any of them on CWGC.

Anne
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one from CWGC

Name: MILLIGAN
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Royal Scots Fusiliers
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Date of Death: 12/10/1916
Service No: 43400
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: IX. H. 10.
Cemetery: A.I.F. BURIAL GROUND, FLERS

\Paul
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spoons



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon this is your man, born in Newton Stewart according to SNWM

Name: McCLELLAND, JOHN
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Gordon Highlanders
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 28
Date of Death: 19/12/1915
Service No: 9764
Additional information: Son of David and Janet McClelland, of Danevale Crossing, Crossmichael, Castle Douglas.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: I. B. 20.
Cemetery: LA CLYTTE MILITARY CEMETERY

He is also listed on Crossmichael memorial, there were no other Gordons with a similar name who died on that date. Not sure of his ties to Colvend but it's not far so maybe his family lived in Crossmichael and he worked in Colvend?

\Paul
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spoons



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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McVinnie is a bit of a puzzle. I note that there is a William McVinnie on the Colvend WW1 roll of honour (outside wall of the church) and he may be a relative. There was also a Robert Henderson McVinnie born in Troqueer Dumfries who served in the South African wars and was discharged unfit in 1907 and then served again in WW1. He was a Gordon Highlander though and no mention of RE on his surviving pension record.

\Paul
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Robert Mcvinnie - found Reply with quote

I have finally pinned down that, as I suspected Robert U McVinnie - Sapper RE, is indeed Robert Walace McVinnie.
Somewhere in transcription the date of 1919 became 1915 Confused

I've now found his death notice in the local paper archive - he died in Stobhill Hospital, Glasgow which I guess explains why no CWG ref.

Kenneth
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great to have the puzzle solved, thanks for getting back with the answer

\Paul
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenneth - I think Stobhill was a Military Hospital.

If he died there, (presuming he hadn't been discharged), I wonder why he's not listed on CWGC's database? I imagine you could download his Death Certificate from Scotland's People and that might answer a few questions.

Do you think he might possibly be one who's slipped through the net?

Anne
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Robert McVinnie Reply with quote

Thanks Anne - you were right, Robert McVinnie's Death was certified by a Captain in the RAMC.
I've copied the next bit from Wikipedia:
In September 1914, at the beginning of the First World War, the hospital was requisitioned by the Royal Army Medical Corps and wounded servicemen arrived by specially converted 'ambulance trains' terminating at a temporary railway platform built within the hospital grounds. A staff of 240 nurses as well as volunteers from the St. Andrew's Ambulance Association cared for over 1000 patients at any given time, until the return of the hospital to civilian use in the spring of 1920.

Kenneth
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know where he was buried?

He might have been taken home to Colvend for burial but there are a lot of men buried in some of the big Glasgow Cemeteries who died at Stobhill. I've been round a good few of them but haven't got any McVinnies in my records.

I noticed you said you'd found a family gravestone listing a man who was killed at Arnheim not listed on the memorial - have you checked to see if 'your' man appears on any stones?

I hope you don't think I'm being cheeky - but would you condsider photographing all the 'war-graves' in Colvend Churchyard for the Scottish War Graves Forum? It would be a very welcome addition, especially as you can include extra info - e.g., that they're listed on the war memorial.

Scottish War Graves Forum: http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/index.php?mforum=scottishwargraves

Anne
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