The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project (Registered Scottish Charity No. SC043826). Please visit our homepage at www.scottishmilitaryresearch.co.uk    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Dalmellington Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> Ayrshire - Civic Memorials View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message spoons Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Dalmellington UKNIWM Ref: 54298 OS Map Ref: NS 479 056 Note that the UKNIWM only lists this as a WW1 memorial but there is a WW2 plaque as well. I couldn't make out what the plaques are made of, looks like tin painted with aluminium paint. In any case it looks like some little toe-rags have been using it as target practice at sometime in the past. The very small word after the last name (John Menzies) on the WW1 board is (DAUTON) - I leave you to decide if it is an aka or a foundry mark etc. As usual, higher res pics on request. Last edited by spoons on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top DerekR Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 3013 Location: Hawick, Scotland Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject: Very sad to see the condition of the Great War panel. _________________ Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear. Back to top Adam Brown Curator Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland) Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Spoons I tried to find Pte James Orr, Cameronians, Tripoli on the SNWM databases for WW2 and Post War since his addition to the memorial intrigued me. The only chap I could find who seemed to match is this James Orr but he is Camerons, not Cameronians. The rank, names and place of death all match. SNWM Details Surname ORR Firstname James A Service number 2928450 Date of death 31/01/1941 Decoration Place of birth Ayrshire Other SNWM roll THE QUEEN'S OWN CAMERON HIGHLANDERS and THE LIVERPOOL SCOTTISH Rank Pte Theatre of death Middle East Unfortunately the CWGC Details don’t give much more info. Name: ORR, JAMES ALEXANDER Initials: J A Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 29 Date of Death: 31/01/1941 Service No: 2928450 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: 2. D. 5. Cemetery: KEREN WAR CEMETERY Keren is in Eritrea - nowhere near Tripoli so I don’t know if he is the same man. If he is the inscription is way of the mark. Regards Adam Back to top spoons Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: interesting - I don't have any contacts in the area myself and I don't research the memorials anyway - I leave that to the experts. As this was obviously added at a later date, I guess that the local papers might have had an article, there may be something in the minutes of the parish church and the regimental association may have a note of it - just some random thoughts in case someone wants to take it further Back to top jamiemcginlay Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 930 Location: Glasgow Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: The Glasgow Herald of 14th September 1921 reported a hearing at Ayr Sheriff Court regarding the Dalmellington memorial. 'Today 13th September at Ayr Sheriff Court Sheriff Broun heard an action of interim interdict at the instance of Mr. W.B. Adam, solicitor; Ayr against the Dalmellington war memorial committee. Mr. Addison who lives at Dunnolly, Dalmellington sought to interdict the defenders from erecting a war memorial on the town common which adjoins his property. He contended the memorial would "obstruct his view" if erected there. If the site was moved a few yards he would have no objection of it on the common. The defenders said the site was one hundred feet from his house and consent from the heritors, the parish council and Ayr District Committee had been obtained. The Sheriff granted the interdict..."It would be rather a pity to have in front of the pursuers windows a large obelisk blocking his view when its removal a few yards away would remove his objection". The Glasgow Herald 14/9/21 7f Last edited by jamiemcginlay on Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top spoons Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Dalmellington spoons wrote: The very small word after the last name (John Menzies) on the WW1 board is (DAUTON) - I leave you to decide if it is an aka or a foundry mark etc. A later thought is that this word reads 'Burnton' (a small village just outside Dalmellington). So presumably there must have been another John Menzies but I cannot see another on the memorial. The names seem to be in a pretty random order on this memorial. \Paul Back to top Richard Bain Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 73 Location: Cumnock, Ayrshire Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Dalmellington Memorial Restoration This headline appeared in the Cumnock Chronicle of Wednesday 19th November 2008 "Memorial brings village together - Dalmellington community donates cash" It's all about the restoration of the village memorial. More at http://www.cumnockchronicle.com/articles/1/30936/ Cheers Richard _________________ My Great Uncles Pte George Gibson 9th Cameronians died 28/12/16 at Arras Pte James Lawson 6th Cameron Hldrs. died 21/3/18 at Monchy Kirkcaldy WM Back to top spoons Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: I visited this memorial on 19th June and it has obviously been significantly renovated with replacement panels, much to the credit of those involved. I notice that James Orr's name has now been added to the WW2 panel. It is a shame that they did not take the opportunity to remove the addition panel with his name or at least remove the paint from it. Back to top DerekR Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 3013 Location: Hawick, Scotland Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: What a difference! Well done to all who were involved in this restoration. _________________ Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear. Back to top spoons Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: The original name panels still exist and I spoke today to a lady who says they are thinking of having them placed on an outside wall behind the church. This would constitute a new memorial. She will keep me informed of developments. \Paul Back to top spoons Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 4991 Location: St John's Town of Dalry Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: The renovation was completed in late 2009. \Paul Back to top DelBoy Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Name order spoons wrote: spoons wrote: The very small word after the last name (John Menzies) on the WW1 board is (DAUTON) - I leave you to decide if it is an aka or a foundry mark etc. A later thought is that this word reads 'Burnton' (a small village just outside Dalmellington). So presumably there must have been another John Menzies but I cannot see another on the memorial. The names seem to be in a pretty random order on this memorial. \Paul The unusual ordering of the WW1 names got my attention, alphabetical but broken into 4 sections, only two divisions for the WW2 names. It's not a regimental division, or year of death. Could they be broken down into sections according to areas of the parish, maybe villages? I think the word in brackets after the last name, itself probably an addition, is Dal'ton, short for Dalmellington. So this would suggest the names are divided into locations and this man is obviously out of order so has the addition to make clear where he should be listed in relation to the other casualties. Derek. Last edited by DelBoy on Sat May 12, 2012 7:53 pm; edited 4 times in total Back to top DelBoy Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Memorial Transcription WW1 DALMELLINGTON John Bain John Blain William Borriston Joseph Brown Thomas Calderwood John Caldwell Charles Cannon Patrick Carroll John B Cook Thomas Cron Robert Cron Henry C. Gault James Gilfillan Alexander Gillespie Alexander Girdwood John Girvan Andrew Halbert William Hill Alexander Johnstone John Johnstone David Kelly Daniel Killen John Lambie John R. Lennox William Lorimer John McCartney John McCreadie David McCulloch John McGarvie Hugh McKie Peter McLean James H. Meiklejohn James Mulligan Samuel Muir Alexander Munro Alexander Murdoch John Orr Peter Orr John Park George Parker Thomas Parker John Rankine James Richardson Alexander Sadler Bernard Scally John Scott Andrew Smith David Smith James Smith John Smith James Stewart John Stewart William Stewart Robert Stoddart James Williamson BENQUHAT (aka BENWHAT) William Bryan David Hodgson Edward Millar Robert Morrison William Neville Alexander Wilson William Wilson LETHANHILL & BURNFOOTHILL John Blain William Ferguson Robert Finlay Hugh Hynds Ivie Lafferty Thomas Lafferty David McClelland Robert McClymont John McCormick Robert Millar Robert Muir Charles Nugent Dennis Nugent Samuel Pyper James McG. Talman William Talman WATERSIDE (DUNASKIN) Joseph Anderson William Blain John Blainey Joseph Collins George Dinwoodie John Dinwoodie John Fagan James Fearns Robert Frew Isaac Fullerton James Graham James Hendrie William Kearn Duncan Lyon David McCaldon James McCaldon Henry McCulloch Alexander McCutcheon James McPate Claude S. May Walter Muir John Muirhead John Murdoch Robert Rollo Alexander Scott John Swallow Edward Thomson Adam Vallance John Menzies (Dal'ton) WW2 William Bain Norman Bell Quintin Bell James Broom Mathew Cairns Alexander Campbell David Colquhoun James Connel Samuel Farrell John Ferguson James Gilmore Edward Hainey James Halliday John Hamilton John Hewitson Alexander Wallis Matthew Dempsey James Johnstone John Johnstone Andrew Kirkland Thomas Lafferty William McHattie Robert McLeod Robert McMahon William Meechan David Moffat Hugh Murray James Orr Samuel Prasher John Robertson John Steele Alexander Stevenson Last edited by DelBoy on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total Back to top DelBoy Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 4858 Location: The County of Angus Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Sgt. Joseph Collins WW1 Joseph Collins (Glasgow Herald 13th Feb 1915) "Mrs Collins, 10 Waterside, Dunaskin, has been notified that her husband, acting Sergeant Joseph Collins, Scots Guards, died of wounds on January 12. He had been wounded in the neck two days previously. Sergeant Collins served eight years with the colours, and had been six years in the reserve when called up. He had also taken part in the South African campaign, and was for a short time in the London Police Force. Before leaving he was engaged as a pig iron lifter at Dalmellington Ironworks. He leaves a wife and four children." CWGC COLLINS, J Rank: Serjeant Service No: 2768 Date of Death: 12/01/1915 Regiment/Service: Scots Guards 1st Bn. Grave Reference: III. B. 48. Cemetery: BETHUNE TOWN CEMETERY SNWM Surname: COLLINS Firstname: Joseph Service Number: 2708 (2768) Date Death: 12/01/1915 Place of birth: Wallastown Ayrshire (Wallacetown) SNWM roll: SCOTS GUARDS Rank: L/Cpl Back to top Adam Brown Curator Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 7312 Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland) Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: Derek I thnk you are right about order. District then alphabetical. For the First World War it looks like it may be Dalmellington first and Wallacetown fourth with John Menzies out of place. Perhaps a late addition just before the plaque was cast. I will split your list up to make it clear where the breaks are. 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