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Minard War Memorial
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dugald



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Location: freeport, bahamas

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Minard War Memorial Reply with quote

Dear Mr. McNay,
I would like to thank your organization, especially the executives, for the hard work and dedication put into the effort to preserve the memory of those who have given their lives to ensure our freedom. The general public, to a great extent, seem to live in the present and they enjoy the blessings of the present without giving a thought to the blood which was spilt to purchase those blessings.
I was brought up in the small village of Minard, Argyll, and had the privilege of knowing the three young men who died in WW2; I now live in the Bahamas and visit the UK occasionally. For a number of years I had a running battle with the authorities regarding the appalling state of the memorial to the men of Minard who died in WW1 and WW2 (correspondence attached). Etched in granite on the memorial are the words “Their name liveth for evermore” but it would seem that “evermore” is about fifty years.
While I have not been home for some years, I found a photograph on the internet, under “Minard War Memorial”, taken in 2009, which shows the memorial to have been cleared of brush and the ground in good condition so it would seem that things may have changed.
I am writing today for two reasons, to commend you on your efforts with the War Memorial Project and to bring to your attention the issue that I cannot find any mention of the Minard War Memorial on your website.
There would seem to be two reasons also why this memorial has been forgotten. As is the case with so many small villages in Scotland, the men commemorated on the memorial no longer have living relatives in the village, so there is no one to speak on their behalf, and the location of the memorial, which is situated about a mile outside the village, is not in the public eye, “out of sight, out of mind” one may say.
I have passed the three score years and ten mark (plus a few months – 131 to be exact!) so the eight men from WW1 and the three from WW2 soon will have no voice to protest on their behalf. I am therefore passing the torch to The Project to keep their memory fresh and their names revered.
I look forward to seeing the memorial recorded on your site so that indeed “Their name WILL live for evermore”.
Capt. D. C. Mc Nab (dugiemcnab@yahoo.com)

Email Communications:
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 15:13:21 -0700
From: dugiemcnab@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: War memorial at Minard
To: Jim.Mather.msp@scottish.parliament.uk

Dear Mather,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my letter.
However, I would suggest that our thoughts might not be to "keep up with the Jones's" and aspire to the standards set elsewhere, but to recognize that it is OUR OBLIGATION to those men who died for US to keep their memory fresh for generations to come.
Respectfully yours,
Dugie Mc Nab

Jim.Mather.msp@scottish.parliament.uk wrote:
Dear Capt McNab,

Many thanks for your email highlighting the sad state of the Minard war memorial.

I share your concerns and will make sure that I raise the issue with the Council, Local Councilors’ and the Community Council as I believe we need to aspire to the higher standards achieved elsewhere.

Regards

Jim Mather
Jim Mather MSP for Argyll and Bute
Scottish Executive Minister for Enterprise Energy and Tourism
31 Combie Street, Oban
Argyll
PA34 5HS
01631-571-359
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email has been sent from a Scottish Parliamentary handheld device.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: dugie mcnab <dugiemcnab@yahoo.com>
To: Mather J (Jim), MSP
Sent: Tue Oct 02 22:11:23 2007
Subject: War memorial at Minard

Dear Mr. Mather,
I take the liberty of contacting you on a subject which I believe is one which is a national disgrace.
(I live in the Bahamas so am not in a position to personally pursue the matter and bring it to your attention hoping that you can use your influence to get some action.)
When I visit UK I make a point of paying homage at any war memorial which I see and read the names of those young men who gave their lives so that we might have freedom and the standard of life which we enjoy.
As you will see from the attached letters I have several times expressed my disappointment over the condition of the memorial at Minard, the village where I grew up. I visited the memorial again about three weeks ago and it is worse than ever. It is situated about a mile to the south west of the village close to the "big house" of the ruling landlord who lost a son in the Great War, so is out of sight from the village and, judging from the condition, is out of mind also.
About a dozen young men gave their lives in WW1, and three in WW2. From a population of about 250 this was a high percentage of the young men in the village. As a young lad, I knew the three who died in the most recent war - they were in their early twenties.
Minard is now populated by incomers and these three men have no family to represent them - life just goes on with no thought for the three who gave their life's blood to give us our "fat cat"standard of living.
The obvious solution would be to relocate the monument at the Post Office in the middle of the village where it would be at least seen by any in the vicinity, but at the very least the County Council should waterblast the lichen and cut down the bushes and tree which obscures it from the main road.
Could funds be obtained from the European Parliament for the relocation? After all these men died to keep the Germans out of France in the first war and liberate France in the second war, and the Germans were the reason for their sacrifice.
When I visit other memorials I find them in pristine condition, many with manicured flower beds carefully tended.
In the USA the memorials are considered to be on sacred ground and the site of thanksgiving services on Veterans Day.
Have these men died for nothing? Are we so callous that we just turn out heads as we drive past?
I trust you will use your clout to rectify this sordid affair.
Yours in anticipation,
(Capt.) Dugie Mc Nab

Dear Capt McNab,

Thanks for drawing my attention to the state of the Minard war memorial. I agree that it ought to be properly maintained and I have written to the Council asking them to do this.

Yours sincerely

Alan Reid MP

-----Original Message-----
From: Dugie McNab [mailto:dumar@batelnet.bs]
Sent: 19 September 2003 22:23
To: reida@parliament.uk
Subject: Minard War Memorial

Dear Mr. Reid,
I bring to your attention a matter which I consider to be an affront and an insult to the memory of the men who died for our freedom from the village of Minard where I grew up.
The attached letter was sent to the County offices in Lochgilphead and is self explanatory. As I point out in the communication, I wrote after my visit to U.K. two years ago and assumed that the matter would be taken in hand. Nothing has been done and my purpose in writing you is to ask that perhaps you may be good enough to keep an eye on the situation and maybe jiggle an elbow or two so that at least minimal maintenance may be undertaken.
I understand that there are many calls on your time but I think you will agree that the condition of the memorial is a reflection on us as individuals, on the local Council and our Government in general.
Thanking you in advance,

Dugald C Mc Nab

Dear Sir,
Two years ago I visited the War Memorial at Minard and was appalled at the condition of the monument and the enclosed plot. So much so that, although I am not given to writing to newspapers, I wrote to your offices with a copy to the Argyllshire Advertiser who kindly printed the letter. In my letter I noted that the men who gave their lives for our freedom have no one to speak for them as, in Minard, there are no living relatives of those heroes. A conciliatory letter from someone in the Council Offices subsequently
appeared in the paper in which it was stated that regular maintenance is carried out on monuments.
In August of this year I returned to U.K. and visited Argyll. The state of the memorial is one of utter neglect and it can now barely be seen from the road, such is the growth of rhododendrons and scrub round the base.
Is our memory so short that the sacrifice of these young men means nothing? Although "Their Name Liveth for Evermore" is cut into the granite, obviously it is. During my visit I visited many other memorials as is my wont, and I found them lovingly maintained. Often the area round about was planted with flowers and the edifices all seemed to have been cleaned regularly.
I know that the memorial was erected outside the village in close proximity to the "Big House" of the Lloyd family who lost a son and who had undue influence on the location, but this is no excuse for not doing any maintenance whatever. I reckon that if six hours per year was spent on maintenance, the monument could be kept in reasonable condition.
Please be good enough to pass my letter on to the person responsible for maintenance.
Yours sincerely,
Capt. D. C. Mc Nab
506 Harbour House,
P.O. Box F41660,
Freeport, Bahamas
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4855
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dugald,

Yes Minard is on the to-do list unfortunately.
I googled for some photos and see it's a fine memorial, although as you say it seems to be stuck away in a field where few will see it.
I imagine it was for the view the site was chosen?





Cheers,
Derek.
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dhubthaigh
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From another photograph I could make out that part of the inscription reads "those connected with Minard". Interestingly the transcription of Argyll & Bute Memorials I took from Oban War and Peace Museum makes no mention of this memorial. It looks a stunning location.
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4855
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: memorial transcription Reply with quote

A transcription:

THIS MONUMENT IS
ERECTED BY THIER
RELATIVES AND
FRIENDS IN GRAT
EFUL MEMORY OF
THOSE CONNECTED
WITH MINARD
WHO IN THE CAUSE
OF FREEDOM AND
JUSTICE LAID DOW
N THEIR LIVES FOR
THEIR COUNTRY IN
THE GREAT WAR

THEIR NAME
LIVETH
FOR
EVERMORE

KILLED IN ACTION

Walter Lloyd
Captain, Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Neil Douglas Findlay
Brigadier-General, G.R. R.A.

Hugh Aitken
Seaman, S.S. Garmoyle

Duncan Crawford
Private, H.L.I.

Alastair McNab
Private, Royal Fusiliers

Archibald McCallum
Private, A.&.S.H.

DIED ON ACTIVE SERVICE

Malcolm Turner
Gunner, R.G.A.

Alexander McGilp
Seaman, R.N.R.

SECOND WORLD WAR

Alister Crawford
- 25th February 1944
Donald MacMillan - 20th August 1944
James Turner - 27th December 1944
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4855
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked them all up on CWGC with no problems except that of WW1 casualty Hugh Aitken.
There were plenty of other men connected with the sinking by a German U-boat mine of the S.S. Garmoyle, but not he.

Derek.
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dugald



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Location: freeport, bahamas

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input. (dubhthaigh = blackhouse?)
Location of the monument was probably determined by the powerful landowning family, the Lloyds, who lost a son and son in law - the brigadier general - so the memorial is close to the "big house". However the family was also philanthropiclly minded and financed the village hall and set up the "fountain", a granite monument on the shore in front of the present post office which was, at one time, a source of fresh water for the fishermen.
Of the three men lost in WW2, I believe Alastair Crawford was in the Scots Guards and lost at Anzio, Donnie Mc Millan was perhaps Gordon Highlanders, and James Turner perhaps RASC.. James died in France but not in action.
There may also be a Roll of Honour recorded in the village hall which, I think may have been recently refurbished. Worth checking out.
I am now comforted in knowing that the memory of the fallen is in in good and caring hands.
(I keep a photo of the memorial with the names of our heroes visible in the front cover of my Bible.)
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4855
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: WW2 Casualty Details Reply with quote

Thanks for that info Dugald.
Do you know what the men you knew who died in WW2 did in civilians life before the war?
Here's their entries from CWGC.

CRAWFORD, ALISTER
Rank: Private
Service No: 2983123
Date of Death: 25/02/1944
Age: 25
Regiment/Service: Seaforth Highlanders 6th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 10.
Memorial: CASSINO MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. W. Crawford, of Minard, Argyllshire.

McMILLAN, DONALD
Rank: Private
Service No: 14383271
Date of Death: 20/08/1944
Age: 21
Regiment/Service: Gordon Highlanders 1st Bn.
Grave Reference: IX. C. 10.
Cemetery: BANNEVILLE-LA-CAMPAGNE WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Angus and Jean McMillan, of Minard, Argyllshire.


TURNER, JAMES
Rank: Private
Service No: 14282571
Date of Death: 27/12/1944
Age: 21
Regiment/Service: Royal Army Ordnance Corps
Grave Reference: Block "S". Plot 1. Row M. Grave 8.
Cemetery: ST. SEVER CEMETERY EXTENSION, ROUEN
Additional Information: Son of Donald and Isabella Turner, of Minard, Argyllshire.

Additionally here's a man with a Minard connection not on the memorial.

MACAULAY, DONALD
Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Date of Death: 29/03/1941
Age: 19
Regiment/Service: Merchant Navy S.S. Olivine (Glasgow)
Panel Reference: Panel 76.
Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Malcolm and Mary Macaulay, of Minard, Argyllshire.

Derek.
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dugald



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Location: freeport, bahamas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Minard War Memorial Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your input.
I cannot recall what these men did for a living. Possibilities are Crarae Quarry or Forestry Commission which was just starting are possibilities.
Donnie Mc Millan's father was a good piper and worked on the Kilberry Estate (near Tarbert) at one time. Archibald Campbell of Kilberry was a piping authority and in one of the books I have is a photo of a small band formed from men on the estate. Angus is shown in the photo.
Regarding Seaman Mc Auley. The "Olivine" was one of Roberstson's coasters. A cousin of mine, Tommy Ross, was skipper on one of the ships and was torpedoed going from Glasgow to Swansea. She was lost with all hands and may have been the "Olivine". (I have a recollection of hearing that a man from Minard had been sailing on the ship).
The lives of these men are emerging from the mists of time and I thank you for your gracious contributions.
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dugald



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Location: freeport, bahamas

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: minard war memorial Reply with quote

For the information of anyone doing research, I have a recollection of another Roll of Honour being on the wall of the Village Hall. I may be wrong but it is worth investigating. (memory is from about six decades ago)
Dugie
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We still don't have our own photographs of this memorial.

Adam
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the exact location of the memorial?

I had a wee run through Minard with Google's wee yellow man, but wasn't able to catch sight of it.

If it's off the beaten track, directions would help to find it.

Anne

*Added:

Seems to be 'goings' on recently, see: http://forargyll.com/2014/11/2990-for-minard-to-repair-war-memorial-but-what-about-the-obliteration-of-the-british-legion/
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Adam Brown
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Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anne

I've found a reference online to it being near Tullochgorm near Minard.

Dugald also says " It is situated about a mile to the south west of the village close to the "big house". That was the house belonging to the Lloyd family which at that time was Minard Castle but I don't think it is this house Dugald is refering too because that is not a mile south-west of the village.

I've looked up the Ordnance Survey map for the area and it doesn't pinpoint the memorial which is a shame because they do pinpoint them elsewhere when they are in rural spots.

The A83 is lined with trees and hedges along that part unfortunately but luckily it does part for long enough here:

http://goo.gl/maps/XQk8b

From that view I reckon the memorial is at OS Ref: NR 970 954 and accessed up this private road to the six bedroom Braigh Varr Cottage:

http://goo.gl/maps/v0MOs

Adam
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7372
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now updated the War Memorials Online entry with the correct location details as it had it located in the wrong place on the map.

https://www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/node/189548?search=search_map%3Fsearch_value%3DMinard%26memorial_name%3D

Thanks

Adam
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dugald



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Location: freeport, bahamas

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is good to have people looking for the memorial which for so long seemed to be forgotten.
My reference to the "big House" was to Braigh Bharr which was also owned by the Lloyd's and latterly by Col. P. Fane Gladwin (Scots Guards) and is close also to Barr Farm.
The memorial is on the brow of a hill on the left going South, and can't be missed.
Thanks for your interest,
Dugie
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dugald



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Location: freeport, bahamas

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ref. my previous.
The memorial is on the RIGHT when driving south.
(maybe it's because I am on the other side of the Atlantic as I write!!!)
Dugie
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