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Jane Haining - Dunscore church
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see that Jane Haining has been honoured with one of the new British Heroes of the Holocaust awards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8556207.stm

\Paul
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Missionary Jane Haining doesn't apear on CWGC or SNWM, should she?

http://www.dgstandard.co.uk/dumfries-news/local-news-dumfries/local-news-dumfriesshire/2010/10/20/memorial-made-to-war-heroine-51311-27504428/

Article..."A DUNSCORE missionary who tried to protect 400 Hungarian orphans during World War Two, was remembered during a moving memorial ceremony in Budapest.

Dunscore minister Christine Sime and local woman Pam Mitchell made a last-minute trip to the city last week to represent the village after an invite by members of the Jewish community.

Rev Sime said: “This was an important occasion including speeches from Gusztav Zoltai of Mazsihisz, a leader of the Jewish community in Budapest; Katalin Levai, of the Holocaust Memorial Society, an archivist who brought to light new pictures of Jane; a representative from the society tasked with teaching children about the holocaust; Rev Aaron Stevens, the minister of The Scottish Church, Budapest and Miklas Durr, one of the students who had visited Dunscore this year.

“Pam and I were also asked to address the assembled company.

“We spoke of Jane’s strength of faith and character which led her to offer herself in God’s service, of the honour, respect and love in which she is held in Dunscore, and of the core values held by Jane which led her to share God’s love with all around her, no matter their faith, their race, their circumstances.”

Jane, who was born at Dunscore in 1897, worked as a Church of Scotland missionary to Hungarian Jews from 1832, where she cared for 400 young orphans at a school in Budapest.

When World War Two began in 1939, Jane refused to return home to Scotland and chose instead to stay with the children in her care.

When the Nazis invaded Hungary in March 1944, Jane was arrested for refusing to leave the orphans. She was deported to Auschwitz, where it is believed she was gassed on August 16, 1944.

Rev Sime and Pam also presented the Jewish community with a piece of whinstone from Lochanhead Farm, where Jane grew up. The stone, which was polished and engraved ‘Dunscore’, was very well received.

They also visited the Holocaust Memorial Garden beside the Dohany Synagogue, where Jane’s name is now engraved in the stone along with others who helped Jews in this time of terror.

Christine and Pam will be offering a presentation of Jane’s life and their experiences at the ceremony in Budapest on Tuesday, October 26 from 6.30pm-7.15pm, and Wednesday, November 3 from 2pm-3pm in Dunscore Church.
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DelBoy wrote:
Missionary Jane Haining doesn't apear on CWGC or SNWM, should she?


Canonbie War Memorial lists a civilian woman working for the Diplomatic Servive who was killed by a terorist bomb in Istanbul in 1941. She is commemorated by CWGC. Civilians killed by Luftwaffe bombers are also commemorated. So why does a woman like Jane Haining who was killed in a Nazi concentration camp not meet the criteria for inclusion on CWGC?

Thanks

Adam
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Brown wrote:
DelBoy wrote:
Missionary Jane Haining doesn't apear on CWGC or SNWM, should she?


Canonbie War Memorial lists a civilian woman working for the Diplomatic Servive who was killed by a terorist bomb in Istanbul in 1941. She is commemorated by CWGC. Civilians killed by Luftwaffe bombers are also commemorated. So why does a woman like Jane Haining who was killed in a Nazi concentration camp not meet the criteria for inclusion on CWGC?

Thanks

Adam


Is it not perhaps the case that civilians (from WW2) are only listed by CWGC where their graves are in UK?

\Paul
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Tonym



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul

Not sure that's correct Jean Morrison, who I have recently had commemorated, although a nursing sister is classed as a Civilian War Dead as are many other civilian nurses but they are commemorated by CWGC. Also if you look at S.S. "Tanjong Penang" on CWGC you will see lists of Civilians commemorated and they all died off Singapore.

I have also wondered why Jane Haining is not commemorated.

Tony
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spoons



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, I meant plain civilians as opposed to members of specified civilian organisations. I understand that members of the specified civilian organisations (such as Red Cross) are given full CWGC status if killed as a result of enemy action (my terms, not a quote). I think that ordinary civilians war dead buried in UK are listed by CWGC although I do not think that gravestones are maintained for them. I am not sure if ordinary civilians who were killed overseas such as Jane Haining are listed. I have not come across one. Not that I mean that such an extraordinary lady should be classed as ordinary in any way, just that she was not in one of the specified organisations.

\Paul
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Tony points out there are many " ordinary " civilians commemorated by CWGC if they died due to enemy actions. The Singapore nurses are good exanples as are others who died in Far East POW camps, etc. Having a grave in the UK is not relevant as these are not war graves in any event. Following WW2 CWGC assumed a responsibility for recording details of civilian casualties notified to them by various reporting authorities.

A civilian who was a member of one of the recognised civilian organisations, who died in certain ecircumstances will have war dead status and theirs is a war grave which could have a CWGC headstone.

I believe this lady would qualify provided she was a British national at her death and this could be proved by offiicial record. Similary the circumstances of her death would also require to be proven with official evidence.
Obtaining the required evidence at this late date would, I suspect, not be easy.
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If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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Tonym



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is nobody else in the process of putting a case forward for Jane, I will make an attempt. I think that I have enough details of her activities but if anybody has any personal details would be grateful for them.

The recorded details of her activities should, I would imagine, be enough for CWGC to make a decision so we can only try.

Grateful for any relevant details.

Tony
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Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony

I am trying to find out if there is anything with CWGC at present.
Since writing earlier I found that, although in captivity, there is some doubt as to how she died as the German supplied death details were that she died in hospital of a natural caused linked to starvation.

Can you prove she was a British national at her death? A Birth Certificate showing her born in Scotland would not suffice.
The fact she is not already there suggests there may have been an evidencial problem post WW2. Of course, it could be she was simply forgotten.
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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Tonym



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

I somehow doubt that she changed her nationality, there is so much detail on the web I am sure that this would have been commented on. Also, it appears that the British Prime Minister accepts her as a British subject in the posthumous presentation of a 'British Heroes of the Holocaust' award.

Regarding the alledged German Death Certificate, recording death by cachexia (malnutrition), I feel sure that the extermination process of all those gassed would have produced Death Certificates recording various causes of death justifying their cremation.

Tony
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Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:18 pm    Post subject: The late Jane Haining Reply with quote

Tony

I did not doubt it either but it would have to be proved. Unfortunatly the Prime Minister is not the authority for this.

However, I am now aware a case for commemorating Jane Haining as a civilian on CWGC was submitted earlier in the year by IFCP on behalf of a volunteer.

Will advise when she is accepted.
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If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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Tonym



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

I think that I might know the volunteer, I will have a word with him, save me a job.

Tony
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Sgt. J. V. MURPHY, The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, D.O.W Monte Cassino, Italy.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: The late Jane Haining Reply with quote

I think it may have been Chris H.
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
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Tonym



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's who I have contacted

Tony
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: The late Jane Haining Reply with quote

Tony

As advised, the job is already done and her case has been put forward.
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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