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Men of Mennock
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4826
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

Not listed on UKNIWM

Located in a room below the Sanquhar Tolbooth Museum at OS Map Ref NS 780 099. The room is used by the local history group (exact title not known). I first saw this item a couple of years ago but unfortunately my photos did not come out and I have not had the chance to go back but fortunately Gladys Cuttle was able to provide these pics.

I know nothing of this memorial other than it was described to me as 'Men of Mennock'. There is no writing or inscription on the board but each picture is numbered so I expect that there is (or was) a list of the men whose photographs are on it.

Any other information would be welcome.



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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4826
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This really is one of those odd coincidences. I had these photos from Gladys quite some time ago and just 10 minutes after I post them I got a mail from her with lots of info.

Found newspaper cutting for the lovely photos of 43 men in frame which sent you last year. One which held in Sanquhar
Roll of Honour unveiled on Friday 14th June 1921 in Mennock Village and hung up on Mennock School wall. The 43 men are ones who enlisted in the great war from the district.
from paper 'After plaque hung on wall 27 former pupils of Mennock School were presented with a gold medals; 23 men present to receive the medals and one men accepted his own plus two for each of his brothers, and 2 other relatives accepted the other two'.
I have names for the 27 men and sorting out if on Mennock WM, Mennock School Plaque on Wm or on Sanquhar WM. Then managed to get to 39 names in all, so only missing 4 left to find. Next task is to sort out names with photos, have managed a few but not many - will go up to Sanquhar and see lad in Tollboth.
So we can really say this plaque was unveiled in 1921 and hung in Mennock School, until school closed; and the 43 men enlisted in great war from the district.
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Plaque Reply with quote

Managed to find names for all of the 43 men on the roll of honour for men from the District of Mennock which I found in the 'Mennock School Log Book 1890-1942' This plaque unveiled in 1921 and stayed in the school until it closed in the 1960's or so. Today plaque held by the 'Sanquhar History Group' to view go to 'Sanquhar Tolboth Musuem' and ask for 'Rab' saying wish to view Men of Mennock - Roll of Honour.
Found Number 40 states he is 'Richard Brydon' spelt this way and on Wm spelt with the 'e' and information from sites re Mennock WM states also on Durisdeer 2 WM's; the photo which have of Richard Bryden from Durisdeer on Service number 13610 from 7th BN KOSB's is different photo at No 40, so think two different Richard Brydon or Richard Bryden. Think RB - 13610 only on the 2 Durisdeer WM's; he is also on Durisdeer School roll of honour.
Found on cwgc Bryden No 47184 Royal Scots, parents in Dumfries not found on snwm and Bryden No 5644 London Reg (London Scottish) who is
on snwm and born in London. (another man on Mennock memorial who died in London Scottish, so may have been friend of Richard) Under Brydon found two on cwgc only No 22542 RFA parents Galashields and No 13416 in Durham Light Inf. Can anyone help to find link of any of these men to Mennock.
We have either two Richard Bryden's or Photo in roll of honour is wrong.
The Mennock War Memorial unveiled with the two plaques the top one 'for all the men from district who joined up and died in WW1' and the bottom plaque 'men from Mennock School who died'. Note Richard Bryden added at the end.
On the Sanquhar WM unveiled on 18th Sept 1921 have Richard Bryden down as spelt with 'e' and in KOSB's (have copy of the opening service sheet which I have checked the details from)
Would be gratful for some help please.
Many thanks - Teddy


Last edited by teddy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:22 am    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

Looked at all the information once again.
1) June 1921 the roll of honour plaque unveiled with 43 with photos, 27 men former pupils of Mennock Sch receive a Gold Medal. No 40 on plaque is Named as 'Richard Brydon' - he does not receive a medal.

2) 18/9/1921 Sanquhar WM unveiled at Memorial Institute and have a Private Richard Bryden KOSB on it.

3) Not sure on date when Mennock WM unveiled as yet - but have
Richard Bryden KOSB as joined and died in WW1 on top plaque, then bottom plaque from school states 4 men, followed by also of another man then follows and Richard Bryden KOSB.

So if take photo in plaque and artcile correct in June 1921 - Richard Bryden was not at Mennock School and not in KOSB's: then the Sanquhar and Mennock have the wrong information as a different man, yes in KOSB but from Durisdeeer, so think this is wrong.
Help please to find correct person in photo please.
Teddy.


Last edited by teddy on Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

Just found article in local paper dated 18.2.1922 as follows:
' The Bravest Village - The village of Mennock, Nr. Sanquhar was awarded second place in the "Weekly Despatch" bravest village competition and has now been presented with a magnificent bronze tablet, set in polished alaabaster slab, and bearing the names of those who answered Lord Kitcheners call to arms during the first six months of the war. The tablet is the gift presented by Messrs H.B. Sale, Ltd, bronze manufacturers, Birmingham. A committee has been appointed to make arrangements for the erection of the tablet in a suitable place in the village. Its acquisition was due to the efforts of Mr. Walter Chisholm, who compiled the names, rank and regiments of the village lads. The first place was gained by Knowlton, Kent while the third went to the Orkney Islands'.

The above tablet on the top on Mennock wm. Still researching date when unveiled.

I think the article dated 1922, confirms that a mistake was made with man named Richard Brydon; first mistake made in Sept 1921 on Sanquhar and followed by second mistake onto the above Mennock.


Therefore looking for the 'correct Richard Brydon/Bryden from the four men found in my first note.
Teddy.
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Stewartry



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Just to say that the London Scottish is a Richard, but the other two are both Robert, so that's them ruled out.

Would you mind emailing me a copy of the D&G Standard newspaper photo of Richard Bryden, Durisdeer, published 24 Nov 1915? I take it that is the different one you already have?

Who and when were the numbers added to the roll of honour? They weren't on it 18 months ago.

Cheers,

Stuart
_________________
www.sonsofgalloway.org.uk
5th KOSB
Stewartry RoH
ATC Auchencairn book
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

Stuart,
Sent you all informatikon I have on a PM.
Thanks for the information regarding two Byrdon's who are both Robert.
Then is another Richard service No 47184 from Royal Scots, but parents down as Dumfries; so either him or man from London Scottish.
Does anyone know if any contact to Sanquhar or Mennock please? with the two men.
Thanks, Teddy.
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Stewartry



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Teddy,

#47184 from Royal Scots is also a Robert, so just leaves the man from London Scottish. I can't see a connection with this man since he was born Mile End, London in 1896.

It seems to me that the confusion is due to the photos, but not sure what has happened. Looking at the photo from the newspaper that you sent, I could make myself believe that he looks like the next man (no. 41, Cpl Walter Smith). A simple mix up with two photos in the memorial or something else? Would be good if there was a newspaper photo of Walter Smith to compare.

Stuart
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Stewartry RoH
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

Have managed to get bit from local paper dated 1.10.1921 which tells us about 'Memorial Tablet erected in the mennock School for former pupils who fell in Great War' This tablet today is now at the bottom on Mennock WM. Still to find out when plaques put onto WM at Mennock, must have been after school closed for the school one and after 1922 for top bit.
The tablet has four names for former pupils of Mennock school, and two other who had a long connection with the district'.
This information confirms that 'Richard Bryden' who is on at end of the plaque, also on Sanquhar and the two Durisdeer WM's was not former pupil of Mennock school, only connention with the district.

Still to find the 'Richard Bryden' who is on the plaque of 43. Think he may be the man in London Scottish and another man on plaque in same reg.



Regards, Teddy


Last edited by teddy on Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stewartry



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pic #40


Quote:
Think he may be the man in London Scottish


Name: Richard Edgar Cecil Bryden
Born: Mile End, London, 1896 (2nd qtr)
Residence: Forest Gate
Enlistment Location: London
Rank: Private 5644
Regiment: London Regiment
Battalion: 14th (County of London) Battalion (London Scottish)
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Death Date: 1 Jul 1916

This Richard would have been 20 years old when killed on the opening day of the Somme Offensive. I don't think that age fits at all with the photo on the Mennock RoH. Sorry, but I would rule him out.

Stuart
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

The 43 Men on the Plaque are men who 'joined the services from the district of Mennock and some lost their lives and some returned'
Man No 40 is down on name list as 'Richard Brydon' and I think, from all my researching, that he returned after the war.
The 'Richard Bryden' who is on WM's of Sanquhar, Mennock and the 2 parish of Durisdeer WM's is a different man. (The names spelt different and photo's different)
Thanks for the help.
Teddy
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Stewartry



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Teddy,

At a bit of a dead end with this one because even if this person survived the war, there still isn't a suitable candidate under that name of either spelling variation. There were certainly other Richard Bryd[e/o]ns in the area of eligible service age, so perhaps one of them served but not overseas, therefore no MIC.

Stuart
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:22 am    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

In Jan 2014 I was asked by Dumfries Museum if I would share research on this roll of honour, all information passed over for the Museum to use as needed. Work was started on repairing/cleaning the frame on 'Brave Men of Mennock' and trying to find information on the 43 men. All work would be completed at end of 2014, and in 2015 would go into an exhibition of the Great War -' Next of Kin' start in Dumfries and travel around Scotland Museums during year and in Sept return for display in Sanquhar Museum.
This week had confirmation that Dumfries Museum start on 19th March 2015 with first of WW1 exhibitions during 2015-2018 - 'Next of Kin' exhibition which is on tour from the National Museum of Scotland & has the Brave Men of Mennock.

I have been invited to the reception evening on 18th, I think this exhibition in Dumfries for one month, but shall confirm next week.
Teddy
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:17 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

This Next of Kin Exhibition shall be at Dumfries Museum from 21/3/15 to 20/6/15 - first for 7 other venues from July 2015 to May 2017 from National Museum of Scotland. Look for further details at:-
www.nms.ac.uk/nextofkin and www.1914.org
Teddy
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teddy



Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Penpont, Dumfriesshire

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Men of Mennock Reply with quote

The Men of Mennock plaque shall go back to Sanquhar Tolboth and shall be on view for all to see for the future from 1/7/2015
Teddy
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