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William Paterson, RAF **Now Commemorated by CWGC**
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4858
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:46 am    Post subject: William Paterson, RAF **Now Commemorated by CWGC** Reply with quote

What's the story with casualties missing from CWGC who are listed on SNWM? Are these "non-comms" or is there a differing qualification?

For example,

SNWM
Surname: PATERSON
Firstname: William
Service Number: 155070
Date Death: 19/12/1918
Place of birth: Norreston Elgin
Other: 5 (E) A.R.D.
SNWM roll: THE ROYAL AIR FORCE
Rank: Boy
Theatre of death: England.

He is buried in a CWGC plot in Arbroath's eastern cemetery, but is not on the cwgc register for cemetery internments there.

He was fatally injured as a result of being hit on the head with a propeller, he died in Bedford military hospital the following day. He was 17.

Derek.

Cheers,
Derek.


Last edited by DelBoy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek

I am checking into this one.

The criteria used by SNWM is totally different from CWGC and unconnected.

That said, if a man dies in service during the relevant period he qualifies for CWGC regardless of the cause of death. If this man was in the RAF then he will qualify as war dead, if missing from CWGC, assuming a case can be proved.

Can you e-mail me an image of the grave / headstone and any news reports you have? The graves will be private burial, not a " CWGC plot "

The name at Elgin I believe is wrong.
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Jim

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In Flanders fields.

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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked up the Morayshire Roll of Honour and there is no William Paterson (or Patterson) listed as serving in the RAF so it looks like he probably had no Morayshire connection at his time of death even if he was born there.

Would it be Morreston, Elgin?

Thanks

Adam
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam

Quote:
Would it be Morreston, Elgin?

I suspect so.

I found a death in England for Patterson and can probably source the DC if I can get enough supporting evidence.
It may be he has already been found.
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Jim

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We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

Derek

He is not on CWGC.
If the circumstances are as you relate he would appear to be a non comm. To take it further I will need supporting evidence ie. grave / headstone and any newspaper reports you have showing the date, obit, etc. via e-mail.
That would allow me to obtain his DC via IPCP which will be the only official record required if it confirms RAF service at death.
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In Flanders fields.

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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e-mail sent Jim.

I'll have a look for a photo of his grave, which I'm sure I have, somewhere.

A Tanscribed Arbroath Herald/Guide article.


From the Arbroath RoH book.


Last edited by DelBoy on Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

Derek

Does the ROH confirm the man below is his brother?

Name: PATERSON, STEWART WILKIE
Initials: S W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Gunner
Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Artillery
Unit Text: Howitzer Bde.
Age: 31
Date of Death: 10/07/1918
Service No: RMA/1388(S)
Additional information: Son of George and Margaret Taylor Paterson; husband of Mary A. Paterson, of 2, Duke St., Arbroath, Forfarshire. Born Monikie, Dundee.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XXVIII. D. 17.
Cemetery: LIJSSENTHOEK MILITARY CEMETERY
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Jim

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In Flanders fields.

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DelBoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't make the link.

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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:13 pm    Post subject: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

Derek

I had expected as much due to the age difference. I note there are no Patersons on the memorial but a W Paterson at the High School. If the ROH confirm the brother let me know. Maybe he too is on the headstone?
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DelBoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the cemetery record that states William was buried in compartment C in the eastern cemetery. I had previously photographed every headstone in that compartment, there are no Paterson's in my collection?

I will have a thorough walk around tomorrow, he could be in an unmarked grave?

The burial record suggests he was the first in he plot.
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DelBoy



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

kinnethmont wrote:
Derek

I had expected as much due to the age difference. I note there are no Patersons on the memorial but a W Paterson at the High School. If the ROH confirm the brother let me know. Maybe he too is on the headstone?


This is an excerpt from the database held at the local British Legion of all the Arbroath related casualties taken from local newspaper articles for the first world war.



Alex F. Paterson was the son of a David from Luthermuir.
James G. Paterson was the son of James and Agnes from Letham Mains.
Colin G. Paterson was the son of Alex and Isabella from Arbroath.
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: William Patterson, R.A.F. Reply with quote

Derek

From the evidence you supplied by e-mail I have ordered the DC. Will update here when it arrives.

The Legion database again demonstrates why these sort of records are unreliable in isolation. They have the wrong date of death. The same can be true of news reports and headstones.

I recently heard of a case where the inscription on his headstone said a man 'died of wounds suffered in France'
It turned out that he died of nephritis long after he was discharged.
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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DelBoy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

kinnethmont wrote:
Derek

I note there are no Patersons on the memorial ....


I think you must have looked at the wrong memorial? Here's the Paterson's from the Arbroath memorial. The only difference between them is the Legion database has added a "t" to C.G. Paterson's name.

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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

Derek

It was this one, but the details were not this clear. Thanks
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In Flanders fields.

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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: William Patterson R.A.F. Reply with quote

William Patterson, Mechanic , Royal Air Force has been forwarded as a case, on Derek's behalf, to CWGC / MOD as an in service death non comm ( Accidental Death). His details are now in the system.

The DC states " injuries to head caused through being struck by the propellor of an aeroplane"
His name is recorded with two "t"s and it is likely this is how it will appear, unless the R.A.F. decide different from viewing their records. I have supplied his Birth Certificate which confirms the usual spelling, Paterson. His father was a native of Forgue where there remain a number of Paterson families.

As we know, he was buried at Arbroath and the grave is unmarked.
Will update when further details available.

The R.A.F. has been pretty quick of late in deciding cases, so we may hear soon.

Well done Derek in finding him.
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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