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D Maxwell, Buittle Church

 
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:52 pm    Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church Reply with quote

Not listed on UKNIWM

Location inside Buittle church OS Map Ref: NX 808 598

Not listed on Armed Forces Memorial Roll of Honour

Desmond Maxwell
Royal Navy
born Oct 16th 1886 died Apr 28th 1977



Last edited by spoons on Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church Reply with quote

Quote:
Not listed on UKNIWM

I am not sure that UKNIWM would want to record this, it is not a war memorial or memorial to a casualty. Should he be listed here ? He might not have served in war time at all?
This man is aged 91. I expect he is commemorated there because his brothers are.

I can appreciate the other Maxwells at Buittle being recorded here and by UKNIWM.
Quote:
Not listed on Armed Forces Roll of Honour

If this is a reference to a local Roll that would tend to confirm he did not serve during war time.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what Paul is referring to (I think?):

http://www.forcesmemorial.org.uk/index.asp

Anne
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church Reply with quote

Anne

I think that unlikely as it is for those men and women of the United Kingdom Armed Forces (Regular and Reserve) killed on duty or as a result of terrorist action since 1st January 1948.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Och well - that's the only Armed Forces Memorial I know of.

Anne
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: D Maxwell, Buittle Church Reply with quote

kinnethmont wrote:
Quote:
Not listed on UKNIWM

I am not sure that UKNIWM would want to record this, it is not a war memorial or memorial to a casualty. ?


I agree not one for UKNIWM

Quote:
Should he be listed here ? He might not have served in war time at all?


Given his age he may well have served in the Great War. He would have been 28 in 1914.
These types of church memorials which commemorate former servicemen are a bit of a grey area here. Sometimes they are on the SWGP, sometimes they are here. Personally I am happy for them to be here and I don't think we need any hard and fast rules about their inclusion or exclusion.
I'm happy that any plaques in a church are in the public domain because they are often so difficult to get access to.

Regards

Adam
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Stewartry



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: D Maxwell, Buittle Church Reply with quote

Adam Brown wrote:
Given his age he may well have served in the Great War. He would have been 28 in 1914.

He did indeed serve. I don't have my files at hand to give a full reply (my computer is bust) but know that he joined the RN in 1901 and was Lieutenant in 1914, then Lieutenant-Commander from 1916. He was at sea in command of various ships until mid-1918 when he was given a staff posting at Inverness in August 1918.

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spoons



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reply to Jim's original comments. When I post a new memorial, I add the UKNIWM Ref Number if it is listed or state that it is not listed (as this case). I do not imply that it should be listed. The scope of this project is much broader than UKNIWM allowing Covenanter memorials and others to soldiers etc who may well have died of old age. I think this is a great resource for military and family history researchers who, after all, are not always exclusively interested in those who died.
If the memorial is to an individual, I would post the CWGC or Armed Forces Memorial entry if one existed or state that he was not listed on the memorial applicable to his date of death. Again, no inference that he should be listed.

Incidentally, I think that the Armed Forces Memorial Roll of Honour holds details of all forces personnel who died in service since 1 Jan 1948 regardless of cause of death. There is an indicator to show whether they are also listed on the Armed Forces Memorial.

\Paul

\Paul
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: D Maxwell, Buittle Church Reply with quote

Paul

Thanks for the explanation. As Adam pointed out, this type memorial is a " grey area " for a War Memorials project, but he is content to record them here.

The information I gave on the Armed Forces Memorial was correct. The criteria is not all deaths in service, regardless of the cause.
They advise:
In what circumstances will someone be included?
The emphasis of the new memorial is to recognise those 'killed on duty' and so it will commemorate those killed in training, on peacekeeping operations and on exercise as well as battle casualties.

Who will be included on the memorial?
In general, members of the UK Armed Forces killed on duty, or as a result of terrorist action since the end of the Second World War will be included. Members of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and the Merchant Navy who died in conflict zones while in direct support of the Armed Forces will also be included.

However, I had initially understood their Roll of Honour repeated the same names, but now appreciate it does list ALL who died in service, regardless of the circumstances of death.
I expect they are indicated as you suggest, to show those on the Armed Forces Memorial
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If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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spoons



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, we are talking about different things here. You are talking about the Armed Forces Memorial and I am talking about the Armed Forces Memorial Roll of Honour which lists ALL deaths in service.

Incidentally, Capt Masters RMP is listed on both the Roll of Honour and the Armed Forces Memorial despite the fact that he took his own life by hanging so there must be quite a degree of flexibility in the rules.

\Paul
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kinnethmont



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul

In my last post I explained the confusion and gave details of both the Memorial and Roll.

I am not familier with the details of Capt. Masters. Certainly the Trustees will have discretion in all cases submitted to them.
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If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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