The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

Adam Brown

I know the subject of listed buildings has come up before but I don't think we've discussed why some war memorials have been granted listed building status but the vast majority haven't?

By doing a search on Historic Scotland's Listed Building database for war memorials you can see those which are listed.

http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/index/heritage/historicandlistedbuildings.htm

Some are listed as Category B which seems to be those with statues or ornate carvings or are grouped together with a nearby building such as a church or graveyard. Others such as obelisks and crosses are category C(S). Surely all public civic war memorials fall into Category C(S) according to Historic Scotland's definitions?

Category B
Buildings of regional or more than local importance, or major examples of some particular period, style or building type which may have been altered. (Approximately 51% of the total).

Category C(S)
Buildings of local importance, lesser examples of any period, style, or building type, as originally constructed or moderately altered; and simple traditional buildings which group well with others in categories A and B. (Approximately 41% of the total)

Regards

Adam

spoons · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject:

I have had some recent dealings and am still waiting to see if an application I made has been approved.

Non free standing memorials can only really be included in the listing of the building where they are situated and that would then depend on the building as a whole being listed.

The War Memorials Trust position is that it would like to see all free standing memorials listed but this is easier done in England than in Scotland. Historic Scotland say they are extremely unlikely to list any free standing memorial on its own if it is situated in a cemetery or churchyard although it could be included in the listing of the church etc but again that depends on the building as a whole warranting being listed.

To achieve grade B status rather than C, the memorial would have to be of significant importance outside of its local area but I think this is taken by Historic Scotland to refer mainly to the fabric of the memorial itself (Sculpture, architectural merit etc) and not its meaning as a place of remembrance, although I may be wrong on that point, but it is the impression I have.

If anyone is applying to have a memorial listed, I would strongly suggest making a point of it being the location of the local remembrance service, perhaps with photos or newspaper articles showing its ongoing use.

\Paul

Adam Brown · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject:

Thanks Paul

spoons · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject:

dhubthaigh · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject:

I am currently working on the Perthshire public/parish/district war memorials list.

Much of my recent time has been spent trying to obtain and transcribe the relevant unveiling report from the newspaper. I have also cross-referenced the memorials with the UKNIWM but many have not yet been allocated a reference number.

My other thought was on the 'listing' of memorials. Of 88, albeit not all freestanding, only 16 are listed by historic Scotland. I found this thread but it would appear quite a task to accomplish this.

Paul,

Sorry if you have updated elsewhere but how did your application work out? and have you any further thoughts on this?

spoons · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject:

Hi Mark, I had forgotten about this thread. The memorial I was trying to have listed was the Crimean memorial in Balmaclellan. By working co-operatively with the local minister and Historic Scotland, the church was listed grade B with specific mention of the War Memorial Window and the Crimean Memorial in the churchyard.

We had to take this approach because of Historic Scotland's stated 'disinclination to list a free-standing memorial in a churchyard'.

A few months ago I attended a workshop on applications for listing memorials. The War Memorials Trust have produced a helpsheet on the subject http://www.warmemorials.org/uploads/publications/55.pdf.

Listing can have negative as well as positive issues, for example listed buildings consent would be required to undertake repairs, renovations or any changes (names added etc) except for straightforward like for like repairs (I think). For example you would also need listed building consent to add lighting, disabled access or even to mark metal components with smartwater. I understand that listing applications will not normally be considered where a planning application has been submitted, it needs to be done in advance.

For something of artistic or architectural importance (such as Kirkcudbright or Maxwelltown) then it should be straightforward. It should also be possible to get listing because of historic importance and you need to show how it is different from other non-listed memorials, for example is it used by locals for a remembrance service or does it frequently appear on postcards etc of the area.

\Paul

dhubthaigh · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject:

Paul,

Thanks you. Good points, and food for thought. Just what I was requiring.

Mark