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Wamphray
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4936
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Wamphray Reply with quote

Not listed on UKNIWM.

Located inside Wamphray parish church at OS Map Ref NY 131 965. This is a rural community with no real centre and the church is best located using the OS Map Ref. My thanks to a very helpful session clerk who opened up the church for me.







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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Name: GIBSON, JOHN MURRAY
Initials: J M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force
Unit Text: 51 Sqdn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 25/04/1941
Service No: 642202
Additional information: Son of James Alexander Gibson and Elizabeth Gibson, of Moffat, Dumfriesshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 43.
Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

from the lost bombers website:

Whitley Z6482 Information
Type Whitley
Serial Number Z6482
Squadron 51
X1D MH-?
Operation Kiel
Date 1 24th April 1941
Date 2 25th April 1941


Further Information
Serial range Z6461 - Z6510. 50 Whitley Mk.V. Delivered by Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft between 24Dec40 and 8Feb41. Contract No.106962/40. Airborne 2135 24Apr41 from Dishforth. Lost without trace. all are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. F/S J.P.wilson KIA P/O G.H.Kidd KIA F/S K.E.Taylor KIA Sgt A.H.Norris KIA Sgt J.M.Gibson KIA
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7356
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done finding this 'unknown' civic memorial Paul.

It's strange that the First World War plaque has so much detail but doesn't show ranks.

Adam
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting also that they are in date order and the first two listed were killed on the 'inglorious 12th'.

Harkness and Waugh are both commemorated on stones in the churchyard.

\Paul
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul

Does the headstone date of death and forenames for Harkness tie with the memorial details?
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Brown wrote:
Well done finding this 'unknown' civic memorial Paul. Adam


My thoughts exactly. Had never even heard of Wamphray.
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kinnethmont wrote:
Paul

Does the headstone date of death and forenames for Harkness tie with the memorial details?


It does indeed - Alexander Irving Harkness. Will be posted in due course on the War Graves Project. Although I could not find hime in CWGC even using Geoff's search engine. Nor a service record or MIC on ancestry. Are you thinking he might be a non commemoration?

I wondered about the name of Harkness - there is (or was) a moderator of the Church of Scotland with that name I think, and I found 2 gravestones of former moderators in the churchyard, Charteris was one, don't recall the other. Unusual for such a small community that does not have even a village at its heart.

\Paul
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: Wamphray Reply with quote

Quote:
Are you thinking he might be a non commemoration?



Paul

I was beginning to wonder if that might be the case. Will check further.

***************
For general interest only.
Parishes within 10 miles of Whamphray are listed below, all are likely to have a war memorial. Some of the duplicated names Applegarth and then Applegarth & Sibbaldbie will relate to parishes being linked before WW1.


Parish Name Type,County,Country,OsRef Distance & Direction
=========== ========================= ====================

Applegarth P DFS SCT NY1084 6.9 South
Applegarth and Sibbaldbie P DFS SCT NY1084 6.9 South
Corrie P DFS SCT NY2086 7.5 South East
Dryfesdale P DFS SCT NY1283 7.5 South
Eskdalemuir P DFS SCT NY2597 8.2 East
Heck {Lochmaben} P DFS SCT NY0980 9.5 South by South West
Hutton and Corrie P DFS SCT NY2086 7.5 South East
Johnstone P DFS SCT NY1091 2.8 South by South West
Kirkmichael P DFS SCT NY0187 8.4 South West
Kirkpatrick-Juxta P DFS SCT NY0697 3.9 West by North West
Lochmaben P DFS SCT NY0882 8.4 South by South West
Moffat P DFS SCT NT0805 6.7 North by North West
Sibbaldie P DFS SCT NY1084 6.9 South
Tundergarth P DFS SCT NY1780 9.8 South by South East
Wamphray P DFS SCT NY1295 0.0
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Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk
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kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Alexander Irving Harkness Reply with quote

This man did not serve under the name given on the memorial. He was born Alexander Harkness Irving at Newton, Wamphray on 29th April 1898.

He served under his true name, Alexander Irving, and is commemorated by CWGC and SNWM as given below. CWGC were not provided with details of his NOK.

He enlisted in the 17th HLI (Glasgow Chamber of Commerce Battalion ) at Glasgow and landed in France 22nd Nov 1915. I note the date on the memorial is a day out with that on CWGC.


Name: IRVING
Initials: A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Highland Light Infantry
Unit Text: 17th Bn.
Date of Death: 09/08/1916
Service No: 2992
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: P. 44.
Cemetery: CAMBRIN CHURCHYARD EXTENSION



Surname IRVING
Firstname Alexander
Service Number 2992
Date Death 09/08/1916
Decoration
Place of birth Wamphray Dumfriesshire
Other 17th Bn.
SNWM roll THE HIGHLAND LIGHT INFANTRY
Rank Pte
Theatre of death F.& F.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk


Last edited by kinnethmont on Wed May 06, 2009 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Wamphray Reply with quote

kinnethmont wrote:
For general interest only.
Parishes within 10 miles of Whamphray are listed below, all are likely to have a war memorial.


Jim

There are possibly two names on this memorial listed on nearby memorials. On Applegarth and Sibbaldbie War Memorial there is a G Thomson and the one you have now identified as A Irving is also probably on Moffat War Memorial.

Regards

Adam
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Stewartry



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
Location: nr Nottingham

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, another good find. And well done to Jim on the Harkness/Irving issue.

Quote:
Interesting also that they are in date order and the first two listed were killed on the 'inglorious 12th'.


John Dickson and Duncan McKellar were two of six friends belonging to or working near Wamphray, who enlisted together in September 1914. They landed with the 1/5th at Gallipoli on 6th June 1915 and thirteen weeks later, three were dead and two wounded. The other fatality, David Lister, was a native of Canonbie and is commemorated on the village memorial. Duncan McKellar is also commemorated at Port Bannatyne (North Bute) - Isle of Bute.

Stuart
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Kenneth Morrison



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the G. THOMSON, 3rd KOSB, 1 October 1916 might be:

Name: THOMSON, GEORGE
Initials: G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Unit Text: 8th Bn.
Date of Death: 01/10/1916
Service No: 38385
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 11 C and 12 A.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

SNWM has him as formerly Private (23222) KOSB

He appears on the Millar family gravestone in Crossmichael Parish Churchyard
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-ftopic340.html
as the husband of Mary Millar of Clone Farm, (Palnackie) Buittle.
They were married on 24 December 1915 at Wellington St. Blythswood, Glasgow. He a Munitions Worker of Lady St. Annan and Mary of Clune Farm, Palnackie.

SNWM gives his birthplace as "Hoddon" but GRoS has Cummertrees in 1885 (if this is the correct George - age 30 on Marriage Register)

Don't know enough about the area to make the link with Wamphray.
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stuartn



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is now WMA, ex UKNIWM, memorial 72204
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Kenneth Morrison



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Location: Rockcliffe Dalbeattie

PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. DICKSON, 1/5. K.O.S.B. DARDANELLES 12, JULY 1915.
John Dickson age 22 Private (1892) 1/5th (Dumfries and Galloway) Battalion, King's Own Scottish Borderers.
John was a shepherd on the Castlemilk Estates when he enlisted.
Born 1892 at Leithenhall, Wamphray as John Brydon Dickson. Son of the late Adam Dickson and of Annie (Kirkpatrick) Dickson of Leithenhall Cottages and of Newton, Wamphray, Beattock.
Missing in Action on 12 July 1915 and named on the Helles Memorial, Gallipoli, Turkey.
Also named on the Lockerbie War Memorial.

and his brother

D. DICKSON, 3rd R.S. SALONICA 14, NOVR. 1916.
David Dickson age 19 Private (30453) 3rd Battalion attached to the 1st Battalion, Royal Scots.
David was a joiner when he enlisted in November 1915. He was mobilised in March 1916 and was posted to the 1st Royal Scots in Salonica, arriving there on 8 September. David died of disease in the 27th Casualty Clearing Station at Lahana.
Born 1897 in Moffat, Dumfriesshire. Son of the late Adam Dickson and of Annie (Kirkpatrick) Dickson of Leithen Hall Cottage Wamphray and of Newton Wamphray.
Died on Active Service on 14 November 1916 and buried in Lahana Military Cemetery, Greece.


A. I. HARKNESS, 17th H.L.I. FRANCE 8, AUGT. 1916.
Served as:
Alexander Irving age 18 Private (2992) 17th (3rd Glasgow) Battalion, Highland Light Infantry.
Alexander landed with his battalion at Boulogne in November 1915.
Born 1898 in Newton, Wamphray as Alexander Harkness Irving. Son of Jane (Irving) Harkness and of William Harkness who married in 1914 in Wamphray.
William is named as Alexander's father on the Army Registers of Soldiers effects.
Killed in Action on 9 August 1916 and buried in Cambrin Churchyard Extension, France.
Also named on the Moffat War Memorial and on the Moffat Academy memorial as A.IRVING.


Last edited by Kenneth Morrison on Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kenneth Morrison



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D. MACKELLAR, 1/5. K.OS.B. DARDANELLES 12, JULY 1915.
Duncan John McKellar age 20 Private (1895) 1/5th (Dumfries and Galloway) Battalion, King's Own Scottish Borderers.
Duncan was a gamekeeper on Sir Robert Jardine's Wamphray Estate in Dumfriesshire when he enlisted in September 1914. He landed with his battalion at Gallipoli in June 1915.
Born 1895 in Cumbrae, Bute. Son of the late Peter McKellar of Downcraig Ferry House, Cumbrae and of Sarah (McCallum) McKellar of 85 Ardbeg Road, Rothesay, Bute.
Missing in Action on 12 July 1915 and named on the Helles Memorial, Gallipoli, Turkey.
Also named on the Lockerbie War Memorial and on the North Bute War Memorial at Port Bannatyne.


T. MILLS, 3rd K.O.S.B. FRANCE 30, JULY 1916.
Thomas Halliday Mills age 19 Private (23316) 2nd Battalion, King's Own Scottish Borderers.
Thomas was employed on farm work at Pumplaburn, Wamphray when he enlisted in March 1916. He had been in France for just two weeks.
Born 1897 in Johnstone, Dumfriesshire. Son of the late James Paterson Mills of Templeland, Lochmaben and of Elizabeth (Halliday) Mills of Larchhall, Johnstone Bridge, Lockerbie and of 30 Janefield Gardens, Maxwelltown.
Missing in Action on 31 July 1916 and named on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing of the Somme, France.
Also named on the Johnstone Parish War Memorial.
Note: CWGC show his date of death as 21 July 1916. All other records show 31 July. I have referred this to CWGC
UPDATE - CWGC have amended their records
.


M. PARKER, 1st R.S.F. BELGIUM 26, SEPT. 1917.
Maxwell McKnight Parker age 19 Private (40918) 1st Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers.
Maxwell was a farm servant at Leithenhall, Wamphray when he enlisted in December 1915. He was mobilised as Private (23639) in the King's Own Scottish Borderers in May 1916 and posted to the 7th/8th Battalion in France in November 1916 but transferred to the 1st RSF and attached to the 8th Trench Mortar Battery. He was admitted to hospital with influenza in February 1917 but was able to rejoin his battalion in March.
Born 1898 in Tinwald, Dumfriesshire. Son of James and Mary Agnes (Strong) Parker of Leithenhall and of Railway Cottages, Auchen Castle, Moffat, Dumfriesshire.
Missing in Action on 26 September 1917 and named on the Tyne Cot Memorial, Belgium.


Last edited by Kenneth Morrison on Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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