The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project
(Registered Scottish Charity No. SC043826). Please visit our homepage at www.scottishmilitaryresearch.co.uk
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Red Cross Archive

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Adam Brown
Curator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Red Cross Archive Reply with quote

An interesting article from today's BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7940540.stm

Detective work by a British historian has unearthed information that could enable thousands to piece together their family histories.

Peter Barton was commissioned to carry out research into the identities of World War I casualties discovered in a mass grave at Fromelles in France.

He was given access to the basement of the Red Cross headquarters in Geneva. There, he was allowed to examine records that have lain virtually untouched since 1918.

He estimates that there could be 20 million sets of details, carefully entered on card indexes, or written into ledgers.

They deal with the capture, death, or burial of servicemen from over 30 nations drawn into the conflict; personal effects, home addresses and grave sites cover page after page.

All were passed to the Red Cross by the combatants; volunteers logging the information by hand before sending it on to the soldiers' home countries.

According to Peter Barton, the UK's copies no longer exist, but the originals are still here and are immensely important.

"To a military historian, this was like finding Tutankhamen's tomb and the terracotta warriors on the same day," he told me.

"I still can't understand why no-one has ever realised the significance of this archive - but the Red Cross tell me I'm the first researcher who has asked to see it."

The records could potentially reveal the whereabouts of individuals whose remains were never found, or never identified. Grave after grave in the World War I cemeteries mark the last resting place of an unknown soldier.

But that presents the Red Cross with an unprecedented challenge; the paper records must now be conserved, and digitised. More than £2m has already been set aside for a project that will begin this autumn, and which is likely to involve experts from all over Europe.

The Red Cross hope to have the archive online by 2014, 100 years after the start of World War I. They believe that the care and patience of their volunteers during the conflict coupled with today's technology will provide a key to unlock the past.

Volunteers logged the details before sending it to the soldiers' home nations
The Red Cross headquarters high above Lake Geneva is one of the best known buildings in the city, at the centre of a web of humanitarian aid stretching around the globe.

But this site is also home to one of the word's most remarkable historic archives; personal details which have lain virtually untouched for decades.

Their significance only came to light after Peter Barton had been commissioned by the Australian government to carry out research, following the discovery of a mass grave on World War I battlefield at Fromelles in France.

That trail led him to the Red Cross Museum in Geneva, and to the card indexes and registers compiled between 1914 and 1918; during that period the Red Cross had acted as a go-between, logging, and passing on information to 30 countries drawn into the conflict.

Those details included whereabouts of prisoners, their condition or injuries at the time of capture, and the location of field burials.

Details which no longer exist in the UK, but here, in dusty cardboard boxes Peter Barton found the original indexes; thousands upon thousands of cards; dozens of registers.

Some of the records refer to other mass graves, with exact directions as to where they were dug, and the identities of the soldiers who were buried. Where possible, the registers include home addresses and next of kin.

In the World War I cemeteries, headstone after headstone marks the last resting place of an unknown soldier.

The names of the missing line the walls of memorials across France and Belgium, and until now, the trails followed by new generations ended with family histories still incomplete.

It is hoped that the records kept in Geneva will be online by 2014
The fragile documents now being examined could provide the missing pieces of a jigsaw, and the Red Cross are already working to bring the archive into the computer age.

The organisation's head of press, Florian Westphal, admitted they had never faced a challenge quite like this: "First we have to make sure that we preserve the original records," he told me.

"Then, this autumn, we will begin the process of digitising the World War I section of the archive - we expect that phase of the project to cost around four million Swiss Francs."

The Red Cross say they'll need expert help from other countries, and will almost certainly ask for volunteers to join their own archivists. They aim to have the archive available on the web by 2014, a century after World War I began.

But that's only the start; the careful record-keeping extended through World War II, and on to more recent conflicts.

I was shown the rows of metal shelves which contain millions more personal stories; more index cards neatly packed into boxes. Public access here would require significantly more effort, and more cash which is simply not available at this stage.

Back in the World War I archive, Peter Barton was leafing through page after page of handwritten names - all men who had died on the first day of the Battle of the Somme - lives ended far from home, but, thanks to the patience and care of Red Cross staff all those years ago, their stories may soon be told.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
dhubthaigh
Our first ever 1000-poster


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 5071
Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks absolutely awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4991
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

see also this thread on GWF

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=118936

about the Red Cross info already available.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
David McNay
Administrator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 11425
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep up, you lot:

http://scottishmilitary.blogspot.com/2009/03/could-unknown-soldiers-be-identified.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: ICRC Archives Reply with quote

This may not be quite the revelation that the media report suggests. Some of us were aware that ICRC has these details, they were used extensively to trace casualties, POW's, etc during / after both wars.
The prospect of them being available on-line is new, and an interesting development.

ICRC provide archive details to NOK, but charge others £50 per hour to carry out research which makes it a touch expensive, with no guarantee of success.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/contact-archives
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4991
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jim, I certainly wasn't aware of the archive, or the books mentioned in the GWF thread but it doesn't surprise me. People usually use and comment on stuff that is easy, free or at least cheap. This is certainly none of those. It does seem a long wait but when you think how long we had to wait for the censuses to be online (and still not available on subscription for Scotland then I suppose it is fair enough.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
anne park
Our first ever 2000 poster


Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 21200
Location: Aberdeen

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Red Cross info Reply with quote

The Naval & Military Press are also getting in on the act they are offering lots of books. It's all happening will we manage to keep up...........Anne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4991
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I take this opportunity to remind all forum members that we have a books and a links section which, between them, have most of the decent research resources. If anyone knows of any other online or book resources, could you post them please so we can all benefit. I have gained quite a lot from what people have posted here but there are gaps in what I can research. I know of nothing on WW2 soldiers or WW2 navy (apart from u-boats which we have) and what about civilian casualties in either war? I saw a reference recently to Times Casualty Lists (always prepared to show the limit of my knowledge) what are they? are they online?
I have a large pile of books on WW2 and post WW2 RAF aircrashes, but nothing between the wars or for Fleet Air Arm or foreign crashes - I know of significant Belgian and USAF crashes in this area but struggle to research them.......well, you get the idea.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dhubthaigh
Our first ever 1000-poster


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 5071
Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have said many times before I am no expert so I really don't know what this archive has or what to expect.

However - one question. My g-uncle John Duffy KIA 30.07.1916 High Wood. Body never recovered and commemorated Thiepval. Would he, or others in similar circumstances, be mentioned in these records ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4991
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have read it seems that if he wasn't buried, then there is unlikely to be any record. If however he was buried and his grave subsequently lost, in further fighting etc, then you might be in with a chance. Both of those would currently count as no known grave I think.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kinnethmont



Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Aberdeenshire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:45 pm    Post subject: ICRC Archives Reply with quote

ICRC had involvement with both sides and could gather details of those who fell into enemy hands, either as casualties or POW's. In either case the details of burials were likely to be recorded by the military, in the first instance.
As Paul suggests, those who fell in no mans land would not be known to either side, unless recovered and identified days, months or years later, in which case they would be in a known grave. There is the likelyhood that the remains or grave was lost due to ongoing military activity. Often graves were lost due to shelling, even in cemetries behind the front line.

John Duffy may have disaapeared without trace or today he could lie in a grave as an unknown.
High Wood was never fully cleared after the war, and it is estimated that the remains of around 8000 soldiers, British and German, still lie there today.
John may well be one of them.
_________________
Jim

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

www.kinnethmont.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com