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Just a thought

 
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robbie



Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 31
Location: West Norway

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:48 am    Post subject: Just a thought Reply with quote

As an absolute newbie on the site I should maybe not make bold suggestions, but here goes.
What you've created here is fantastic but perhaps the presentation is slightly lacking. Have you ever considered moving the information to a wiki style format?
I know from about 2 years of wiki editing on Shetlopedia that it is a much easier, and much more searchable, format for this kind of information.
I know it would be a major job to convert to a wiki format, but if you were interested myself and a few friends could help you set it up.

Most of my reason for posting this is that I could add a lot, but only feel confident adding to a wiki style site without maybe causing screw-ups. Wink
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4991
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(damn - just lost a whole post, just as I was about to submit Evil or Very Mad )

Hi Robbie, Adam and David will be along with comments soon no doubt, but I thought I would chuck in my twopennyworth.

When the project was originally set up, the first thought was to have it as a conventional web site but it soon became clear that dealing with all the submissions and putting them up on the site would be a significant task. (we are appoaching 25,000 posts now).

You only need to look at CWGC, Channel 4 Lost Generation and Roll-of-Honour sites to see the problems of maintaining a large amount of data.

The forum format allows each member to post their own and even allows for local mods to do the admin in a particular area.

\Paul
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dhubthaigh
Our first ever 1000-poster


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 5071
Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robbie,

Thanks for putting the suggestion forward. I'm open to anything that would progress/enhance the project but I don't have a clue about the pros and cons/mechanics of such systems etc.
This is David and Adams baby anyway so they would be better placed to provide an opinion.
Hopefully the set up wouldn't put you off helping with info. If I can get the hang of it then anyone can Smile
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David McNay
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 11425
Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before we set this forum up, I had toyed with the idea of using a wiki-style site.

However, I didn't really like the setup, and found it rather too fiddly for my liking. I'm sure it has its advantages, but I'm happy with the setup as it is.
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robbie



Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 31
Location: West Norway

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was really just thinking out loud. Wink
One of the main things which made me wonder was the hosting of the pictures. Photobucket has failed on me twice resulting in pictures vanishing from sites.
But I'm delighted to see the information being collated in any format. Very Happy
I'll continue reading what is here already, then make any additions I can.
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robbie wrote:
Photobucket has failed on me twice resulting in pictures vanishing from sites.


That's a bit worrying. I don't think we've had any problems in the last two years though.

We didn't start off as a project, just a simple place to share photographs.

It's always been about personal contributions as and when they can be submitted.

It's a nice idea to have a better format but the more I've seen other volunteer projects suffer because of backlogs the more convinced I am we've made the right choice here for now.

Cheers

Adam
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7312
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Just a thought Reply with quote

robbie wrote:
Most of my reason for posting this is that I could add a lot, but only feel confident adding to a wiki style site without maybe causing screw-ups. Wink


Going back to your original post, it's dead easy to add stuff here once you've got the photos on a photo hosting site and you can bulk upload the photos no problem. Added to that we've been at this as long as you've been at the wiki so if there's any screw-ups it's easy enough to sort out!

Having had a chance to think about this, it might be worth looking into a wiki in an off-shoot of this forum?

I don't think we would want to go down the route of migrating over to another format. I like the fact anyone can sign up at any time in any part of the world and add their information.

Where it might come in handy is if we had a certain subject we wanted to highlight and it would be easier to present that in a wiki format.

Things I'm thinking of are things like:

Boer War memorials
Memorials of Alexander Carrick
Polish Memorials
Merchant Navy Memorials
Nelson Memorials

and so on...

basically things that would need a bit of effort to get on but once there would need little updating.

Just a thought, I'd be interested in other people's opinions...

Cheers

Adam
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robbie

How easy would it be to set up a small wiki as an off-shoot to this forum rather than migrate it? Are there any costs involved apart from time?

Cheers

Adam
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dhubthaigh
Our first ever 1000-poster


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Location: Blairgowrie, Perthshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robbie,

I've not a clue about these thing. I think you alluded to 'presentation' recently. What is your vision of the format ?

rgds.,
Mark
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robbie



Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 31
Location: West Norway

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam,
The man who set up our Shetlopedia Wiki two and a half years ago, Gary Johnson (Garywiki), would be best suited to tell you what the costs are. I don't think it really cost him very much as the server he uses allows a fair amount of space and he runs many other projects. I fact I expect it's about similar to the cost of a forum.
Gary has also set up small wiki sites for others so he's very much up on all the details, and he'd be happy to explain it all to you, he's one of this worlds nice guys.
Myself and Oddrun have done a helluva lot of the day to day formatting of our pages, setting up Category structures, etc. So we're likely best to advise on that sort of thing. We've had a few 500 edit days between us. Wink
A lot of the benefits of a wiki are in the consistency of information display by using standard formats, and once one page has been done in a particular way it's easy for anybody to copy. Although I feel sure that a forum is the best information gathering tool as more people are happy to post on a forum.
Once the information is available, time and the ability to copy and past is about all that's required.
A major benefit of a wiki is that the pictures are actually uploaded to the site, rather than being on a hosting site. This gives easy back-up facilities for the pictures as well as the text info.
Have a look through Shetlopedia, if you haven't already done so, and see what you think of the set up. We have somewhere over 4000 pages now, and likely more than 4000 pictures.
If you want to contact Gary for more info the easiest way is to log into our furum at: http://shetlopedia.com/forums/
Look for member Garywiki and send him a PM.
As I say Gary has helped others get started so I'm sure he'll be happy to help and advise. If you decided to go ahead myself and Oddrun would be happy to help with formatting pages etc. We all just treat it as a fun hobby, although it can get a bit addictive. Wink

Regards,
Robbie
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Adam Brown
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robbie

Excellent, thanks for all the info.

I'll drop Gary a PM when I get home.

Cheers

Adam
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robbie



Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 31
Location: West Norway

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhubthaigh wrote:
Robbie,

I've not a clue about these thing. I think you alluded to 'presentation' recently. What is your vision of the format ?

rgds.,
Mark


Mark,
An example of possible format for a wiki style page could be something like the one we have for the Shetland Bus Memorial:
http://shetlopedia.com/The_Shetland_Bus_Memorial
or maybe a simpler one with less writing:
http://shetlopedia.com/Bressay_WW_II_Memorial

We're still playing with our format a bit, and are just in the process of introducing the Memorial Details Box which appears top left.
We may tend to have more written text on some pages than you would ever have, but most of it is snippets of information which have been gathered and brought together on one page.
The beauty of a wiki is that any registered member can add to or correct that individual page if they wish to, or leave a note on the discussion page, etc.. Whereas on a forum if you wanted the first post in a topic to have all the relevant information, that has to be edited by an administrator/moderator, or the person who posted the topic.
Obviously in the case of Shetlopedia, war memorials are just one small section, but each page can be linked in many ways to other relevant pages, and the whole thing is constructed using a "Tree/branch/twig" sort of category/menu structure.
I would guess that a way of doing this within a large memorials site would be for instance:
If an individual memorial existed for a Shetlander who was killed in France whilst serving with the Gordon Highlanders. His page could be interlinked within the menu structure to all men who were lost whilst serving for the Gordon Highlanders, as well as all men killed in France, all Shetlanders killed in France, etc.. etc.. The interlinking possibilities are just about endless because once a page is constructed it can be added to as many categories/sub categories as you wish. Plus internal links in pages, such as the blue linked words within the text of our pages, lead to other relevant pages.
It may sound weird and difficult, but a wiki is easier to search than yellow pages, and that's one of it's key points as a research tool. We've not been working with our memorial pages for long, but already we've helped some folk find ancestors. Including this one, which was just a result of a search scoring a hit because we had a picture of the memorial.:
http://shetlopedia.com/MTB_686_-_Clarke%27s_Story

Hope that explains a bit. I never was great at explaining myself. Laughing

Cheers,
Robbie
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