The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

apanderson · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: Denny this time

On both memorials, Cemetery & Town Centre, there is a Lieut. James Lawerence, North Lanc's listed on one of the WW1 panels and just for a change, I can't find him.

I've tried every variant of his surname that I can think of - any suggestions anyone?

Both memorials have identical panels so if the name has been mis-spelt it'll obviously be the same on both of them.

Co-incidentally, there is a Pte. James (Philip) Lawrence (3389), North Stafford Rgt., (born Aberdeen, died 06.05.1915) listed on the Carrongrove Paper Mill Memorial and his surname has been spelt Lawerance. This one is listed on the Denny & Dunipace Roll of Honour as enlisting September 1914 and living at Fankerton which is right beside Carrongrove Mill although his parents are listed on CWGC as living at Rocklands, Milton, Stoke on Trent.

This James (Philip) Lawrence is also listed on SNWM.

I'm beginning to think this is maybe the same man and perhaps if he had no relatives living locally, his rank and regiment was possibly guess work?

Anne

anne park · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: Papermill info

I've a list of workers from Muggiemoss so looked to see if J Lawrence was on that no luck. I've still got it "to do" Anne

apanderson · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject:

Thanks Anne.

Seems we've got more than our name in common - we've both got a never ending list of 'to-do's'!!

Anne

DerekR · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject:

Tonight, and since you're both called Anne, is it safe for me to say that this is "a woman thing"?
(As last night it wasn't a women thing even though both used women's names Embarassed

)
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Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

apanderson · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject:

Well, you might be safe Derek - but if my wee mystery is a 'woman' thing, what's the man's answer???

Or was it the 'to-do' list you were talking about?

Anne

DerekR · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:

Anne,
If I knew all the answers then I wouldn't have 70 "unknowns" on my Hawick list (but I do Shocked

).

So my "man's answer" is that I don't know. Embarassed

And I HATE not knowing.

ps you should see my "to-do" list. As a typical man, it's HUGE Wink

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Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

Roxy · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject:

Oi!

Come here and say that I have a woman's name!!

Roxy

(Scotland U19 prop forward-many years ago)
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Remembering my ggf, Pte Thomas Roberts, 10 SR, killed 25 Sep 15 at Loos.
Also remembering Flt Lt Al Squires and CXX/3 killed 2 Sep 06 in Afghanistan.

anne park · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Papermills around Aberdeen

Mugiemoss, Stoneywood Inverurie and Culter all owned by differnt companies. I've checked Culter and no details of James Lawrence.
My relation worked at Stoneywood before joining up in 1915 His mother was named Mary Ann Philip. I wonder if James Philip Lawrence is a relation. Can you get into Ancestery.com?
I use it at Family History Centre here in Aberdeen but cannot go there for a few days. If you check the 1901 Census for Joseph & Isabella with James P Lawrence. Maybe you might have some luck with 1891 Census if there are other family to them. Anne

anne park · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: Lt J Lawrence

I've been thinking about him. Could it be the father who died, Joseph?
The Tocher family from Aberdeen lost five sons and the father also joined up could this be the answer.
The memorials have different dates of when names were included. The University has details to 1920, CWGC stops at 1921, Aberdeen Roll of Honour has ones to 1923.
Do You know the dates for the memorial there? Anne

apanderson · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject:

The dates are 1914 - 1919.

If you've had a wee look at the thread http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1145 you'll see I added a comment about it being really difficult to photograph. I've got quite a few close up photos of the names but I didn't post them as the quality wasn't very good.

When I was up at the mill, I made enquiries to see if there was any kind of documentation or history on the memorial but nobody knew a thing.

I don't have access to Ancestry - if something annoys me enough I usually spend a few credits on SP to try and find the answer but there's so many men at the moment that I can't find anything on I'm trying hard not to reach for the credit card!

Anne

DerekR · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject:

There is no James Lawerence listed in the North Lancs in the Medal Index Cards and there is only this:

Medal card of Lawrence, James
Corps Regiment No Rank
Loyal North Lancashire Regiment 266201 Private

There are NO Lieut. James Lawrence in the North Lancs medal cards either.

There are TWO MIC's on Ancestry for James P Lawrence: 1/5th North Staffordshire Regiment. Arrived France 5/3/15, kia 6/5/15.
The second seems to be that his father has made a request for his late son's medals. The address given is Rocklands, Milton, Stoke on Trent.
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Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

apanderson · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject:

Well that's theory No. 1 hit on the head then - there were 2 James Lawrences after all. Thanks for looking up the MIC's Derek.

If there was only one solitary James Lawrence (or any other variant of that surname) in the Lanc's Regt., can we presume this must be the one on the two Denny memorials and his rank was elevated somehow, and what, I wonder, was his connection to Denny.

If only that 1911 Cencus was on line!!

Anne

DerekR · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject:

From SDGW Officers died:
There is only 1 James LAWRENCE, Capt. 15th Royal Scots, dow 3/7/16.
There are NO Lawerence's at all.

There are No Lawrence or Lawerence's officer casualties listed for the Loyal North Lancs.
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Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

DerekR · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:

And SDGW:

20 James Lawrences' listed and no Lawerences.
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Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.

DerekR · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject:

I'd query whether Lt. James Lawerence died after the war so isn't listed in some sources but the fact that I can't find an MIC makes me shake my head in wonder.
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Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.