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Shot at Dawn - various questions
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DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4858
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you continue your research and find anything new?

Derek.
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4831
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, all on a back burner for at least the remainder of this year. Will hopefully get back to it sometime (or hand over to anyone else who wants to take it further).

\Paul
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4831
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joseph Byers who was shot at Dawn was not the 16/17 year old from Dumfries identified in the book 'Shot at Dawn'.

See http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?t=8817 for a full explanation

I have some clues as to who he might be but I'm far from proving it.

the will of 15576 Pte Joseph Byers (who was shot at dawn) is in Scotland's People and it shows he was also known as Joseph Murray and he left 'all his stuff' to his sister Nellie (possibly Millie - handwriting) Murray.

Using 1895 as a birth year I found a Joseph Byers (born Annan) living with his family in Kirkpatrick Fleming and the family includes a sister Helen (for which Nellie is often a diminutive).

There are Murray and Byers families in the surrounding area.

The 1911 census shows him living in Hutton in a bothy as a farmworker with another lad of the same age - Archibald Armstrong. Archibald was killed in the war and is on the Boreland (Hutton and Corrie memorial). I don't think it too big a jump to assume they joined up at the same time.

Kirkpatrick Fleming ROH shows a J D Murray as serving with T. R. Batt as a regiment so that doesn't help much.

It's still a big jump to show that this is all the same person.

Anyone got any ideas?

\Paul
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A.N.Other



Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Archibald Armstong Reply with quote

The following Info should clear up the controversy regarding Archibald Armstrong & Joseph D.Murray.

1911 Census 831 003,p.005 Crossdykes Farm Bothy,Hutton,Dumfriesshire.
Coupland,William,head&serv.,40 yrs.,S.,cattleman on farm, b.Dumfries,Torthorwald.
Armstrong,Archibald,fellow serv.,16 yrs.,S.,ploughman on farm, b. " ,Tundergarth.
Murray,Joseph D.,fellow serv.,16 yrs.,S.,horseman on farm, b. " ,Annan.

The Archibald Armstrong who died in WW1 was :-
D1915 140/AF 920 & 121/AF 29(25)
Armstrong,Archibald,14828,L/Cpl.,1st bn.KOSB.,d.at Sea,13/08/1915.
drowned s.s.Royal Edward,torp'd.& sunk by U-boat,6 mls.W.from Kandeliusa,Aegean Sea,13/08/1915.
b.& r.1891-92 at Tundergarth,Dumfriess.,e.Dumfries,f.Francis,m.Isabella Scroggs Cottage,Lockerbie.
Armstrong,Archibald,B1890 851 13,parents M.Johnstone,15/11/1889.
b.08/09/1890 at Capelfoot,Tundergarth,f.Francis(shepherd),m.Isabella MS Buck.

The Archibald Armstrong who was in the above 1911 Census was :-
Armstrong,Archibald,B1895 851 11
b.18/07/1895(Illegitimate) at Caplefoot,Tundergarth,m.Esther Armstrong(domestic servant).
M1898 851 4
Armstrong,Esther,married Walter Beattie on 01/07/1898 at Caplefoot,Tundergarth,groom,
shepherd resided at Crossdykes,Hutton.
M1923 774/B 1
Beattie,Archibald Armstrong,25 yrs.,farm worker,Wattcarrick,Eskdalemuir,f.Walter(farm worker),
m.Esther Armstrong,& Helen Reive Moffat,23 yrs.,housekeeper,f.Andrew(shepherd),m.Margaret
McGlasson,were married at U.F.C.of S.,Cossarshill,Ettrick,30th March,1923.

B1895 812 12,parents M.Hoddom,June,1877.
Murray,Joseph Dobie,b.21/01/1895 at 24 North St.,Annan,f.William(quarryman,sandstone),m.Annie MS Dobie.

M1919 839 6
Murray,Joseph Dobie,24 yrs.,farm servant,Irvinetown,Kirkpatrick-Fleming,f.William(farm servant),
m.Annie Dobie(dec.),& Mary Jane Wilson Little,23 yrs.,housekeeper,Townport,Toll Bar,Langholm,
f.James(carter,dec.),m.Janet Burgess(dec.),were married at C.of S.Manse,Langholm,24th April,1919.

A.N.Other.
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The memorial at the national memorial arboretum shows Joseph Byers as having the middle name of James. Does anyone know where this came from as I haven't come across this from any source?

Julian Putkowski, author of 'Shot at Dawn' is currently investigating the possibility that Joseph Byers was actually John Byers, born illegitimately in Castle Douglas (Kelton Parish) but I have been unable to find anything local to support that. Anyone any ideas?

Finally, trying to come up with my own list of those Shot at Dawn and pardoned, I am using the SNWM criteria for inclusion in my list. Apart from those serving with Scottish Regiments, I am currently checking Bertie McCubbin, Charles Bain Nicholson and William Smith (served as Milwain) to see if I should include them (being born in Scotland or having a parent born in Scotland). Does anyone have any other names I should check?

\Paul
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pwl1951



Joined: 28 Dec 2013
Posts: 27
Location: Swadlincote, Derbyshire

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 Joseph Byers born in Dumfries between 1887 and 1905.
Years 1987, 1998 and 1900.
The 1900 birth having middle name McCaskie
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anne park
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Soldiers Effects on Ancestry - Joseph Byers Reply with quote

Gives the details about him and 2-18-11 going to his sister Miss Nellie Murray.
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Researching WWI info from Aberdeenshire, Banffshire, Kincardineshire & Morayshire.
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anne park
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Joseph Byers Scotland's People index & 1901 Census info Reply with quote

BYERS JOSEPH M 1898 821/ 399 Dumfries
1901 Census has a Joseph and Nellie Byers staying at 92 Queensberry Street, Dumfries.
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Joseph Byers Scotland's People index & 1901 Census i Reply with quote

anne park wrote:
BYERS JOSEPH M 1898 821/ 399 Dumfries
1901 Census has a Joseph and Nellie Byers staying at 92 Queensberry Street, Dumfries.

That Joseph Byers has been loked into before. He survived the war, became a doctor and died in the 1950s.

\Paul
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