The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

apanderson · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:

Mark - I sent a message to all the people on the page with an e-mail address Laughing

Anne

spoons · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:

apanderson · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject:

I see where you're coming from Paul, I'm just so used to making presumptions from the typical inscription.

I did work out however Abbey & Lleo's dates of births. (Abbey 1897, LLeo 1895) and it made sense that they would be husband and wife. I also tried looking for John Hives (rather than Haress) in all the same places I've mentioned before.

I have a friend who works for the Co-op Funeral Service so I'm going to ask her if she can find anything out for me. (The Co-op seem to do the biggest majority of funerals) and we'll see what happens.

Anne

Adam Brown · Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject:

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:24 am Post subject:

Have looked at the WW2 RAF death indices for Harress (& equivalents) - nothing. Checked the civil England & Wales - nothing.

Spoons may be right. There is 11 years between Lleo and Abbie, so perhaps not Lleo's son. Nothing comes up for Hives so John may have enlisted under biological fathers surname (if known) or alias of some sort.

I've been down this road before all the way round the world to find the answer on your doorstep!

Intriguing nonetheless.

I wonder if the CWGC would do you a search on all RAF deaths for 19/02/1944 for scrutiny. They may take a while to get back though.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:36 am Post subject:

Looked at the grave - again!

In loving memory of OUR mother and HER son. Not our brother.
Also you would have thought, Lleo being still alive, the gravestone would have started with HARRESS - in loving memory of my wife Abbie Hives?

Also when Lleo goes on no mention of OUR father etc. Then Warner goes on THEIR grandson.

A family at odds - definately not straightforward this one.

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:40 am Post subject:

Anne,

I don't know how badly you want to solve this. However I could get a contact in NRH Edinburgh to transcribe death certs for Lleo, Abbie, Warner. Also there was a Lleo Harress in 1991 - not too far away and Anna Craig Harress. These give info on informants (family?) etc.

apanderson · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

BADLY, BADLY BADLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's very kind of you Mark - I would really appreciate that.

I've been looking again at the stone and as you pointed - John was HER son, that never dawned on me before.

Still no joy from the Dunfermline number but I did get an e-mail back from one of the Primary School class members confirming that the Warner Harress listed on their web page is indeed the same Warner Harress killed at 16 in a road accident. All this proves is that some of the family members lived in Falkirk between c1969 and 1975.

The person who replied did say however, that he can remember Warner joining their P7 class - now, whether that means he came from somewhere else and only appeared at Comely Park School in that year, he didn't say. I chanced my arm, e-mailed him back and asked if he knew.

Something else crept into my brain in the wee sma' hours . . . .

Adam posted the details of a John Richardson killed on the same day, son of Cornelius and Abigail Richardson of Bathgate. I wonder if Cornelius was Abbey/Abigail's first husband, they subsequently divorced or separated, and they each have their son's name on their separate gravestones? Cornelius died in 1960, a year after Abbey/Abigail so maybe Lleo & Abbey weren't married and HER son was this same John Richardson.

Both sets of people are buried in Camelon Cemetery. The Richardson stone has no mention of an Abigail, just Cornelius and his two sons . . . .

I'm away to see if I can find anything else on Scotland's People Laughing

Good fun this - eh?

Anne

apanderson · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:12 am Post subject:

BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I found . . . .

On 9th May 1913 at 102 Parson Street, Glasgow
By Declaration/Warrant of Sheriff Substitute
C. Richardson, Iron Worker age 21, 42 English Street, Shieldmuir by Wishaw
Married A. Hives, Drapery Hawker age 18, Craigneuk by Wishaw
(This is the only Richardson/Hives marriage listed)

I think John Richardson and John Harress or Hives (or whatever) are one and the same man - what do you think?

Anne

spoons · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:24 am Post subject:

Exact answer I think. It ties in nicely with the wording on the gravestone. Just one day discrepancy on date of death and that is fairly common. Also Flight Sergeant for Sergeant - again, I have seen that confusion before. Nice one!

\Paul

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject:

Anne,

Indded, I think that is the answer. Would be very interesting to see a newspaper report if there is one.

Adam Brown · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject:

Well done Anne. It had to be too much of a coincidence that John Richardson and a.n.other 23 year old RAF Sgt named John from the Falkirk area had died on the same day and were mentioned on headstones in the same cemetery.

No more sleepless nights over this one.

Have you any more like this....

Adam

apanderson · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject:

I just might have Adam!!

I've been working on a 'Stirlingshire' Roll of Honour. It actually started off as a Denny and Bonnybridge one - I had bought the pulished Denny & Dunipace Roll of Honour and decided to try and update it, not for any other reason apart from for my own records. Well, to cut a long story short, it grew, and grew, and grew and now it has thousands of names for men and women all over Stirlingshire.

Every time I'm out and about at different Cemeteries and Graveyards in this area, I just keep adding names. I try to cross reference gravestones, info from the CWGC database, War Memorials, Church Memorials etc etc. but sometimes like in the case of the man I though was John Harress, I just don't get any further than a name on an inscription. I still keep a note of them and hope that sometime, somewhere down the line I'll be able to fill in some blanks.

I came across another 'querie' earlier today that's a wee bit of a mystery - do you want to know the ins and outs? I wouldn't wan't to bog the forum down with my curiosities!!

I'll see if anyone else is up for a wee challenge before I post any details.

Anne

spoons · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject:

go on, post it, give us a puzzle to solve!

\Paul

dhubthaigh · Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject:

Go on, go on, go on!!