The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project
(Registered Scottish Charity No. SC043826). Please visit our homepage at www.scottishmilitaryresearch.co.uk
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Dalmellington
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> Ayrshire - Civic Memorials
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4918
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Dalmellington Reply with quote

UKNIWM Ref: 54298

OS Map Ref: NS 479 056

Note that the UKNIWM only lists this as a WW1 memorial but there is a WW2 plaque as well.

I couldn't make out what the plaques are made of, looks like tin painted with aluminium paint. In any case it looks like some little toe-rags have been using it as target practice at sometime in the past.

The very small word after the last name (John Menzies) on the WW1 board is (DAUTON) - I leave you to decide if it is an aka or a foundry mark etc.

As usual, higher res pics on request.










Last edited by spoons on Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DerekR
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2979
Location: Hawick, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sad to see the condition of the Great War panel.
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Adam Brown
Curator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7356
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoons

I tried to find Pte James Orr, Cameronians, Tripoli on the SNWM databases for WW2 and Post War since his addition to the memorial intrigued me. The only chap I could find who seemed to match is this James Orr but he is Camerons, not Cameronians. The rank, names and place of death all match.

SNWM Details
Surname ORR
Firstname James A
Service number 2928450
Date of death 31/01/1941
Decoration
Place of birth Ayrshire
Other
SNWM roll THE QUEEN'S OWN CAMERON HIGHLANDERS and THE LIVERPOOL SCOTTISH
Rank Pte
Theatre of death Middle East

Unfortunately the CWGC Details donít give much more info.

Name: ORR, JAMES ALEXANDER
Initials: J A
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 29
Date of Death: 31/01/1941
Service No: 2928450
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 2. D. 5.
Cemetery: KEREN WAR CEMETERY


Keren is in Eritrea - nowhere near Tripoli so I donít know if he is the same man. If he is the inscription is way of the mark.

Regards

Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4918
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting - I don't have any contacts in the area myself and I don't research the memorials anyway - I leave that to the experts.
As this was obviously added at a later date, I guess that the local papers might have had an article, there may be something in the minutes of the parish church and the regimental association may have a note of it - just some random thoughts in case someone wants to take it further
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jamiemcginlay



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 939
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Glasgow Herald of 14th September 1921 reported a hearing at Ayr Sheriff Court regarding the Dalmellington memorial.
'Today 13th September at Ayr Sheriff Court Sheriff Broun heard an action of interim interdict at the instance of Mr. W.B. Adam, solicitor; Ayr against the Dalmellington war memorial committee. Mr. Addison who lives at Dunnolly, Dalmellington sought to interdict the defenders from erecting a war memorial on the town common which adjoins his property. He contended the memorial would "obstruct his view" if erected there. If the site was moved a few yards he would have no objection of it on the common. The defenders said the site was one hundred feet from his house and consent from the heritors, the parish council and Ayr District Committee had been obtained. The Sheriff granted the interdict..."It would be rather a pity to have in front of the pursuers windows a large obelisk blocking his view when its removal a few yards away would remove his objection".
The Glasgow Herald 14/9/21 7f


Last edited by jamiemcginlay on Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4918
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Dalmellington Reply with quote

spoons wrote:

The very small word after the last name (John Menzies) on the WW1 board is (DAUTON) - I leave you to decide if it is an aka or a foundry mark etc.


A later thought is that this word reads 'Burnton' (a small village just outside Dalmellington). So presumably there must have been another John Menzies but I cannot see another on the memorial. The names seem to be in a pretty random order on this memorial.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Richard Bain



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Cumnock, Ayrshire

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Dalmellington Memorial Restoration Reply with quote

This headline appeared in the Cumnock Chronicle of Wednesday 19th November 2008
"Memorial brings village together - Dalmellington community donates cash"
It's all about the restoration of the village memorial. More at
http://www.cumnockchronicle.com/articles/1/30936/

Cheers
Richard
_________________
My Great Uncles
Pte George Gibson 9th Cameronians died 28/12/16 at Arras
Pte James Lawson 6th Cameron Hldrs. died 21/3/18 at Monchy
Kirkcaldy WM
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4918
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited this memorial on 19th June and it has obviously been significantly renovated with replacement panels, much to the credit of those involved.

I notice that James Orr's name has now been added to the WW2 panel. It is a shame that they did not take the opportunity to remove the addition panel with his name or at least remove the paint from it.













Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DerekR
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2979
Location: Hawick, Scotland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a difference!
Well done to all who were involved in this restoration.
_________________

Time but th' impression stronger makes, As streams their channels deeper wear.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4918
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original name panels still exist and I spoke today to a lady who says they are thinking of having them placed on an outside wall behind the church. This would constitute a new memorial. She will keep me informed of developments.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4918
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The renovation was completed in late 2009.

\Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4862
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Name order Reply with quote

spoons wrote:
spoons wrote:

The very small word after the last name (John Menzies) on the WW1 board is (DAUTON) - I leave you to decide if it is an aka or a foundry mark etc.


A later thought is that this word reads 'Burnton' (a small village just outside Dalmellington). So presumably there must have been another John Menzies but I cannot see another on the memorial. The names seem to be in a pretty random order on this memorial.

\Paul


The unusual ordering of the WW1 names got my attention, alphabetical but broken into 4 sections, only two divisions for the WW2 names. It's not a regimental division, or year of death. Could they be broken down into sections according to areas of the parish, maybe villages?

I think the word in brackets after the last name, itself probably an addition, is Dal'ton, short for Dalmellington. So this would suggest the names are divided into locations and this man is obviously out of order so has the addition to make clear where he should be listed in relation to the other casualties.

Derek.


Last edited by DelBoy on Sat May 12, 2012 7:53 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4862
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Memorial Transcription Reply with quote

WW1

DALMELLINGTON
John Bain
John Blain
William Borriston
Joseph Brown
Thomas Calderwood
John Caldwell
Charles Cannon
Patrick Carroll
John B Cook
Thomas Cron
Robert Cron
Henry C. Gault
James Gilfillan
Alexander Gillespie
Alexander Girdwood
John Girvan
Andrew Halbert
William Hill
Alexander Johnstone
John Johnstone
David Kelly
Daniel Killen
John Lambie
John R. Lennox
William Lorimer
John McCartney
John McCreadie
David McCulloch
John McGarvie
Hugh McKie
Peter McLean
James H. Meiklejohn
James Mulligan
Samuel Muir
Alexander Munro
Alexander Murdoch
John Orr
Peter Orr
John Park
George Parker
Thomas Parker
John Rankine
James Richardson
Alexander Sadler
Bernard Scally
John Scott
Andrew Smith
David Smith
James Smith
John Smith
James Stewart
John Stewart
William Stewart
Robert Stoddart
James Williamson

BENQUHAT (aka BENWHAT)
William Bryan
David Hodgson
Edward Millar
Robert Morrison
William Neville
Alexander Wilson
William Wilson

LETHANHILL & BURNFOOTHILL
John Blain
William Ferguson
Robert Finlay
Hugh Hynds
Ivie Lafferty
Thomas Lafferty
David McClelland
Robert McClymont
John McCormick
Robert Millar
Robert Muir
Charles Nugent
Dennis Nugent
Samuel Pyper
James McG. Talman
William Talman

WATERSIDE (DUNASKIN)
Joseph Anderson
William Blain
John Blainey
Joseph Collins
George Dinwoodie
John Dinwoodie
John Fagan
James Fearns
Robert Frew
Isaac Fullerton
James Graham
James Hendrie
William Kearn
Duncan Lyon
David McCaldon
James McCaldon
Henry McCulloch
Alexander McCutcheon
James McPate
Claude S. May
Walter Muir
John Muirhead
John Murdoch
Robert Rollo
Alexander Scott
John Swallow
Edward Thomson
Adam Vallance

John Menzies (Dal'ton)

WW2

William Bain
Norman Bell
Quintin Bell
James Broom
Mathew Cairns
Alexander Campbell
David Colquhoun
James Connel

Samuel Farrell
John Ferguson
James Gilmore
Edward Hainey
James Halliday
John Hamilton
John Hewitson
Alexander Wallis

Matthew Dempsey
James Johnstone
John Johnstone
Andrew Kirkland
Thomas Lafferty
William McHattie
Robert McLeod
Robert McMahon

William Meechan
David Moffat
Hugh Murray
James Orr
Samuel Prasher
John Robertson
John Steele
Alexander Stevenson


Last edited by DelBoy on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DelBoy



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4862
Location: The County of Angus

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:25 pm    Post subject: Sgt. Joseph Collins Reply with quote

WW1
Joseph Collins

(Glasgow Herald 13th Feb 1915)
"Mrs Collins, 10 Waterside, Dunaskin, has been notified that her husband, acting Sergeant Joseph Collins, Scots Guards, died of wounds on January 12. He had been wounded in the neck two days previously. Sergeant Collins served eight years with the colours, and had been six years in the reserve when called up. He had also taken part in the South African campaign, and was for a short time in the London Police Force. Before leaving he was engaged as a pig iron lifter at Dalmellington Ironworks. He leaves a wife and four children."

CWGC
COLLINS, J
Rank: Serjeant
Service No: 2768
Date of Death: 12/01/1915
Regiment/Service: Scots Guards 1st Bn.
Grave Reference: III. B. 48.
Cemetery: BETHUNE TOWN CEMETERY

SNWM
Surname: COLLINS
Firstname: Joseph
Service Number: 2708 (2768)
Date Death: 12/01/1915
Place of birth: Wallastown Ayrshire (Wallacetown)
SNWM roll: SCOTS GUARDS
Rank: L/Cpl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Brown
Curator


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7356
Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek

I thnk you are right about order. District then alphabetical. For the First World War it looks like it may be Dalmellington first and Wallacetown fourth with John Menzies out of place. Perhaps a late addition just before the plaque was cast.

I will split your list up to make it clear where the breaks are.

Thanks

Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project Forum Index -> Ayrshire - Civic Memorials All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com