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Dumfries Academy
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 4958
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Dumfries Academy Reply with quote

OS Map Ref: NX 972 764

Dumfries Academy has 2 memorials, a great war memorial (bronze with names) which is in the main entrance and not listed on UKNIWM and a WW2 memorial (wood without names) which is listed (UKNIWM Ref: 44287)! The WW2 memorial is just inside the entrance at the entrance to the school hall. It was originally designed as an organ screen, but the Academy no longer has an organ and it has been remounted above the hall entrance.
UKNIWM states that a table and 3 chairs form part of this memorial but these were not visible when I visited.

The size and mounting angle of the WW2 memorial make it extremely difficult to photograph. I am not much good at estimating size/distance but I think that it is about 20-25 feet long! Extremely difficult to make out an inscription at the resolution needed to post so I have transcribed it. As always, higher resolution pics are available by email (just PM me).

I confirmed with Academy staff that there is no list of names (Roll of Honour) associated with the WW2 memorial.

Transcript of WW2 memorial:
TO THE GLORY OF GOD

THIS ORGAN SCREEN IS ERECTED IN HONOUR OF ALL ASSOCIATED WITH THE ACADEMY WHO SERVED THEIR COUNTRY

IN THE WORLD WAR 1939 – 1945 AND IN PROUD MEMORY OF THOSE WHO MADE THE SUPREME SACRIFICE

2 names that caught my eye on the great war memorial -

Nurse Jane Nodwell also appears on the New Galloway memorial and is buried at New Galloway but this is not a war grave and not listed on CWGC

Simon Renwick regiment is shown as USA PA?

James Tait VC is listed, he also appears on the Maxwelltown memorial and the Troqueer memorial as well as having his own memorial posted under individuals. (4 memorials for one individual - anyone beat that?). He is not listed on the Scottish National memorial though. I know he served with the Canadians, but others who did so are listed, shouldn't he be on there?









and the WW2 memorial (again, sorry about the resolution)

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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A further 2 photos of the organ screen (in 2 parts) are hopefully a little more legible.

The WW2 memorial consists of the organ screen, a table and 3 chairs and I have now photographed these on a return visit. The table and chairs are used by the Rector of the Academy and his colleagues during assembly. There is a plan to refurbish the table and chairs although they are in quite good condition anyway.




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jardinep



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: DUMFRIES ACADEMY Reply with quote

I would like to add that the academy DOES still have the pipe organ that the memorial plaque formerly was fixed to, and the organ has been recently restored. The plaque was moved to a more prominent position, as the organ is situated at the back of the stage, and it was difficult to read - particularly when the stage curtains were closed!
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spoons



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: DUMFRIES ACADEMY Reply with quote

jardinep wrote:
I would like to add that the academy DOES still have the pipe organ that the memorial plaque formerly was fixed to, and the organ has been recently restored. The plaque was moved to a more prominent position, as the organ is situated at the back of the stage, and it was difficult to read - particularly when the stage curtains were closed!

Thanks for that info, I was actually told that on my second visit (to photograph the table and chairs) but forgot to post it Embarassed
great to have your input on these local school memorials.
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WW1 ROLL OF HONOUR:
AUSTIN WM A PTE CANADA
BANNERMAN ERIC 2/LT A&SH
BARBOUR GAVIN L/CPL ROYAL SCOTS
BARBOUR H D 2/LT RAF
BARRIE CHARLES D O CPL THE LONDON R
BARRIE WM C O 2/LT BLACK WATCH
BEATTIE WM L CAPT BORD R
BELL ARTHUR LT BLACK WATCH
BELL JAS PTE KOSB
BIGGAR WM P 2/LT W YORKS
BLACK ADAM PTE KOSB
BLACK ALEX SGT ROYAL SCOTS
BLACKLOCK WM 2/LT BLACK WATCH
BOWRON KEITH S CAPT LOND SCOT
BRUNTON ALEX PTE HLI
BRYSON ALEX 2/LT KOSB
CAMERON ARCH B 2/LT BORD R
CROMBIE STEWART P LT KOSB
CURRIE JOSEPH C ENGR RN
DALGLEISH ALEX PTE RASC
DALZIEL ROBT J CPL MGC
DAVIDSON WM CPL LOND SCOT
DEMPSTER DAVID P CAPT KOSB
DICKIE WM 2/LT KOSB
DINWIDDIE FRED PTE ROYAL SCOTS
DONALDSON ROBT K PTE AUST
DOUGLAS JAS A J PTE ROYAL SCOTS
DOUGLAS WM C 2/LT KOSB
DUNKELD ROBT SGT RE
DUNN THOS CAPT KOSB
DUNN WM I 2/LT KOSB
DYKES JAS J CAPT KOSB
EDGAR JOHN B PTE THE LONDON R
EDGAR JOHN L/CPL HLI
EDGAR ROBT S GNR RGA
FARRIES GORDON PTE A&SH
FISHER JOHN PTE CAMERONS
FULTON ADAM PTE CAMERONS
GALLOWAY JACK CPL AUST
GIBSON ROBT PTE CAMERONS
GLOVER A M T LT KOSB (RAF)
GOODFELLOW JAS PTE SR
GRAHAM HUGH C LT MGC
GRIERSON WM R PTE SR
HAINING WM J 2/LT KOSB
HOUNAM SAM W 2/LT BLACK WATCH
HUGGAN R ELLIOT LT HLI
JOHNSTON A Y P 2/LT KOSB
KERR JAS PTE KOSB
LAKEMAN ARTHUR F LT BLACK WATCH
LAURIE THOS E L/CPL HLI
LAURIE WM CPL CANADA
LEE FRED SGT RE
LITTLE DONALD D LT LANARK YEO
LITTLE JAS PTE ROYAL SCOTS
LOVE THOS L/CPL KOSB
LUSK CHAS P CAPT CANADA
MACDONALD ANGUS CPL ROYAL SCOTS
MACDONALD COLING CAPT GURKHAS
MACDONALD DONALD CPO RND
MACDONALD N S PTE RE
MATTHEWSON ALEX J L CPL RFA
McCARVA HENRY PTE KOSB
McCOWAN NORRIS PTE KOSB
McCOWAN ROWLAND L/CPL KORL
McGEORGE CHAS J B GNR HAC
McJANNET JOHN G PTE AUST
McKENZIE WM PTE A&SH
McKINNELL BRYDON CAPT L’POOL SCOT
McLELLAN JOSEPH PTE CAMERONS
McNAE JOHN C PTE RSF
McNAE ROBT 2/LT L’POOL SCOT
McWILLIAM JAS L/CPL HLI
McWILLIAM ROBT K PTE SR
MILLAR WM LT TANK CORPS
MILLER A R S 2/LT KOSB
MILLER ERNEST SGT CANADA
MILLER WALTER 2/LT A&SH
MONTGOMERY N S 2/LT C GDS
MUIR ANDREW LT SR
MUIR ROBT A PTE KOSB
MURRAY DAVID M SGT SR
NEWBIGGING ALEX T 2/LT RSF
NOBLE JOHN CAPT CAMERONS
NODWELL JANE L NURSE YORKHILL M HOSP
NEILSON THOS SGT KOSB
POOL JOHN N PTE SR
RACTLIFFE WM T SGT RE
RENWICK SIMON T SGT USA PA
ROBERTSON A H W PTE CANADA
ROBERTSON JAS CPL RFA
ROBERTSON M L/CPL CANADA
RUTHERFORD JOHN L/CPL SCOTS GREYS
SANDERS ARCH M 2/LT KOSB
SERVICE ROBERT CPL CANADA
SHANKLAND ROBT CPL CAMERONS
SIMPSON CD 2/LT MASTER ROYAL SCOTS
SINGER WM W TPR L&BH
SMITH JAS 2/LT GORDONS
SMITH R P 2/LT KOSB
SWAN JOHN PTE BLACK WATCH
TAIT JAS E CAPT V.C. CANADA
TEENAN JOHN M PTE KOSB
THOMSON C RAMSAY L/CPL R FUS
THOMSON THOS J PTE AUST
WALKER WM G PTE HLI
WEBB EDGAR D SGT THE LONDON R
WEIR JAS C.Q.M.S. KOSB
WELLS JAS S PTE RAMC
WHITE FRANK TPR AYR YEO
WILSON ALEX N 2/LT KOSB
WILSON STUART W PTE E SURREYS
WRIGHT JOHN PTE S AFR INF
WYLLIE HUGH A 2/LT W YORKS
WYLLIE WM LT LANARK YEO

115 NAMES
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spoons



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One entry here looked like a mis-spelling but I am not sure. What IS sure is that someone has it wrong.
On the Dumfries Academy memorial it is

RACTLIFFE WM T SGT RE

SNWM has him as RATCLIFFE

CWGC has him as RACTLIFFE and also has the same spelling for his parents.

Then again, the Dumfries memorial has him as RATCLIFFE.

At least 2 of these will be wrong, but which? A puzzle for someone else to resolve I think.
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Stewartry



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spoons wrote:
One entry here looked like a mis-spelling but I am not sure. What IS sure is that someone has it wrong.

Dumfries Academy memorial: RACTLIFFE WM T SGT RE
SNWM: RATCLIFFE
CWGC: RACTLIFFE and also has the same spelling for his parents.
Dumfries memorial: RATCLIFFE.

At least 2 of these will be wrong, but which? A puzzle for someone else to resolve I think.


Dumfries Academy and CWGC are correct - William Thomas Ractliffe was born in Dumfries in 1893.
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spoons



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stewartry wrote:
spoons wrote:
One entry here looked like a mis-spelling but I am not sure. What IS sure is that someone has it wrong.

Dumfries Academy memorial: RACTLIFFE WM T SGT RE
SNWM: RATCLIFFE
CWGC: RACTLIFFE and also has the same spelling for his parents.
Dumfries memorial: RATCLIFFE.

At least 2 of these will be wrong, but which? A puzzle for someone else to resolve I think.


Dumfries Academy and CWGC are correct - William Thomas Ractliffe was born in Dumfries in 1893.

Thanks for confirming that. Seems like the Dumfries memorial got it wrong and the SNWM just copied the error.

I will mail SNWM to inform them.
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spoons



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard from SNWM and they require me to forward a copy of the birth certificate before they will correct the entry. I had thought that the entry on CWGC would be authority enough for them. As I have no intention of parting with my hard-earned, it will have to stay spelt wrong I fear.
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DerekR
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that the SNWM got their information in the first instance from the CWGC but I was obviously wrong.
Dealing with the CWGC to get details changed is also becoming a burden on the ordinary man. Sad
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DerekR wrote:
I thought that the SNWM got their information in the first instance from the CWGC


I think the source of the SNWM data is the same as the Soldiers Died in the Great War rather than the CWGC and I'm not sure that is what the General Registrar uses as well?

Both sets of data SNWM and CWGC must have come direct from the War Office / Admiralty / Air Ministry and more recently MoD but they are different. In many cases or the CWGC if there are no family details there is only an initial but the SNWM and SDGW almost always have full names.

I believe the CWGC knows the full names of all the men and women but the online database is based on scans of the old registers so there are still a lot of names with initials only.

Adam
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DelBoy



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Pte. William McKenzie Reply with quote

spoons wrote:
WW1 ROLL OF HONOUR:
McKENZIE WM PTE A&SH


He isn't listed on the Dumfries or Maxwelltown civic memorials.

(Glasgow Herald 15th of November 1916)
"Previously reported wounded on 12th October, now reported died of wounds on that date, 14888 Pte. William McKenzie, A. and S.H. aged 19, younger son of the late William McKenzie, Dumfries, and Mrs McKenzie, Victoria Avenue, Maxwelltown."

CWGC
Name: McKENZIE, WILLIAM
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
Unit Text: 10th Bn.
Age: 19
Date of Death: 12/10/1916
Service No: S/14888
Additional information: Son of Euphemia McKenzie and the late William McKenzie, of Dumfries. A University Student.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 15 A and 16 C.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

SNWM
Surname: McKENZIE
Firstname: William
Service Number: S/14888
Date Death: 12/10/1916
Place of birth: Dumfries
Other: 10th Bn.
SNWM roll: THE ARGYLL AND SUTHERLAND HIGHLANDERS
Rank: Pte
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:03 am    Post subject: James Smith 2nd Lt Gordons Reply with quote

James Smith Second Lieutenant 10th Bn. Gordon Highlanders Age 36 Killed in Action Pas de Calais, France 09/04/1917 Son of Catherine Smith, of "Fernwood," Maxwelltown, Dumfriesshire, and the late James Smith. Feuchy Chapel British Cemetery, Wancourt Fr 0531 Plot II Row J Grave 01 Dumfries & Galloway Standard 25-4-17: Page 6 Photo
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Kenneth Morrison



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Pte. William McKenzie Reply with quote

DelBoy wrote:
spoons wrote:
WW1 ROLL OF HONOUR:
McKENZIE WM PTE A&SH


He isn't listed on the Dumfries or Maxwelltown civic memorials.

(Glasgow Herald 15th of November 1916)
"Previously reported wounded on 12th October, now reported died of wounds on that date, 14888 Pte. William McKenzie, A. and S.H. aged 19, younger son of the late William McKenzie, Dumfries, and Mrs McKenzie, Victoria Avenue, Maxwelltown."

CWGC
Name: McKENZIE, WILLIAM
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
Unit Text: 10th Bn.
Age: 19
Date of Death: 12/10/1916
Service No: S/14888
Additional information: Son of Euphemia McKenzie and the late William McKenzie, of Dumfries. A University Student.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 15 A and 16 C.
Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

SNWM
Surname: McKENZIE
Firstname: William
Service Number: S/14888
Date Death: 12/10/1916
Place of birth: Dumfries
Other: 10th Bn.
SNWM roll: THE ARGYLL AND SUTHERLAND HIGHLANDERS
Rank: Pte


He is named on the Dumfries War Memorial as
PTE. W. MACKENZIE, A.&S.H.

He is also listed on the Edinburgh University Roll of the Fallen as
McKENZIE, WILLIAM (b. 1896).
Dumfries Academy. Student of Arts, 1914-16. I5th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, Private Nov. 1915. Killed at the Battle of the Somme on I2th October 1916.
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Kenneth Morrison



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sergeant SIMON THOMAS RENWICK, US Army, died of wounds on 20 October 1918 in the No.6 Base Hospital near Bordeaux. He had been wounded on 26 September 1918.
Born in 1896 in Dumfries, he was the son of James and Mary Renwick of 511 Chrisler Avenue, Schenectady, New York State; formerly of Langholm Place, Annan Road, Dumfries.
The family are on the 1915 NY State census.
Simon does not appear on the American Battle Monuments Commission database so I assume his body was repatriated to the USA.

UPDATE: From the New York State Military Museum site
https://dmna.ny.gov/historic/reghist/wwi/HonorList/HonorList_R.htm

RENWICK served as:
Renwick Thomas Schenectady United States. Army 511 Christler Ave. Schenectady NY Sergeant Battery E 19th Field Artillery Died of wounds 20-Oct-1918

Could his entry on the memorial read USA FA rather than PA?
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Last edited by Kenneth Morrison on Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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