The Scottish Military Research Group - Commemorations Project

[Kenneth Morrison]

The Dalbeattie War Memorial has Sgt. Maj. JOHN McGUFFOG IRISH BR Gds
The Stewartry Roll of Honour has him as 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards killed in action November 1914.
The following is from the Dumfries and Galloway Standard 5/12/1914

The problem is I cannot find him anywhere else - CWGC, SNWM or even on a Birth register. (There is a John McGuffog on the Dalbeattie 1901 census but aged 28 and single)
Can anyone help please.
_________________
Ken

[suzebain]

Found on Ancestry: (1901 census)

Name: John McGuffog
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: David
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire
Registration Number: 864
Registration district: Dalbeattie
Civil Parish: Urr
Town: Dalbeattie
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: 225 High Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 41
Line: 21
Roll: CSSCT1901_437

Household Members: Name Age
David McGuffog 37, Granite Quarryman
Jane McGuffog 28
John McGuffog 13
Mary E McGuffog 8
David T McGuffog 7

[suzebain]

Could this be the same man. At St Medan's church, Glenluce, near Stranraer, there is a "John McGuffog memorial window above pulpit".

http://guide.visitscotland.com/vs/guide/5,en,SCH1/objectId,INF51965Svs,curr,GBP,season,at1,selectedEntry,home/home.html

[Kenneth Morrison]

Thanks Suze
have got his birth now from age on census.
Don't know about Church window, but doubtful.
Cheers
_________________
Ken

[spoons]

Very strange - no McGuffog listed on CWGC at all! No-one of a similar name (spelling) found that could be him. Of all the men from that regiment who died on that day, he doesn't fit the description. Not found in SDGW and no MIC found on Ancestry either.

Now for the good news - I found his service record on Ancestry! Born at Dalbeattie, he originally joined in HLI (number 9498) in 1904 and enlisted at Hamilton. Even with this information, there is no entry on CWGC, no hint on his surviving records that he died (or transferred to another regiment).

In my opinion, he is either a non-commemoration or his death was reported in error. The unit war diary may well mention the death of a Sergeant Major. Otherwise the only thing I can suggest is to post what we know on GWF and see what they come up with.

\Paul

[spoons]

By the way, I have 5 pages of service records, PM me your email address if you want them.

\Paul

[Kenneth Morrison]

From the Royal Dragoons Forum and a thread on the GWF (in 2007) I've now got this

Name: JOHNSTONE, WILLIAM JOHN
Initials: W J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant
Regiment/Service: 4th Dragoon Guards (Royal Irish)
Age: 27
Date of Death: 28/10/1914
Service No. 1081
Additional Information: Son of Mr and Mrs J McGuffog, Broad Oak, Bridge End, Waberthwaite Cumberland; husband of Florence Hilda Johnstone (formerly McGuffog) of 70 Fenwick St. Woolwich Common, Woolwich, London.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 3 - 5
Memorial: Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial

SNWM has him as William Johnstone - Born Kirkguneon (sic) Kirkcudbright

According to a researcher on GWF "the current theory is that Mr McGuffog and his family moved upto Cumberland from near Lancaster - along with at least another brother and his family - possibly to work as gardeners at Muncaster Castle. It was Mrs McGuffog's second marriage and she already had a son (William Johnstone) who went by the name John McGuffog locally. I think he married one of his step cousins."

I now need to do more digging and still need help.
_________________
Ken

[Kenneth Morrison]

This is a bit confusing but this is the story so far - I think
The aunt of John McGuffog refered to in the newspaper is Margaret or Maggie Richardson, maiden name McGuffog. She married Robert Richardson in 1876.
In 1871 she was living at Tongland age 14 with her family including brothers David 6, James 4, Thomas 2, and Robert 1.
in 1901, married she was at High St Dalbeattie age 43 and a couple of doors away was David 37 and his family including son John 13.
I think that this is the John McGuffog who signed up with the HLI.

The Mr J McGuffog that CWGC has as a parent of William Johnstone could be James Thus Maggie would be an aunt of both.

I can't trace the Cumberland lot on the 1911 census nor can I find a Birth at Kirkgunzeon for William - and my head hurts so I'm giving up.
I'll settle for the "fact" that John McGuffog and William John Johnstone are one and the same person.
_________________
Ken

[Kenneth Morrison]

From the Dragoons forum:

Hi all,

I'm the guy from the GWF who originally posted about John McGuffog/William Johnstone back in 2007. I've been trying to figure out the relationship ever since 2000 when I first identified him as the man commemorated on the Waberthwaite War Memorial in Cumbria. I only got it cleared up (sort of) about four months ago when I found John McGuffog's surviving Service Records. N.B. I have submitted my findings to the CWGC and asked for his alias to be recorded. As far as I know this request is currently with the MoD Army Historical Branch.

The chronology as far as I can work it out is:

He was born at Kirkguneon c1888 to David McGuffog and his wife (name currently unknown). She must have died or moved on before 1891 because David then marries a Jane Thompson in the Bootle Registration district in the last quarter of that year (Bootle includes Waberthwaite). They must have lived there for a while because a daughter (Mary Ellen) was born in the Bootle district about a year later. She is listed as a half-sister in John McGuffog's Service Records.

By 1901 the family have moved back to Scotland and are living at Dalbeattie (they are on the Census). Proabaly had been there since 1899 or earlier as there is a David jnr. mentioned in John McGuffog's Service Records as a half-brother and I can pick hium up as born in England or Wales).

John McGuffog joined the HLI on 27th June, 1904, and served with the 2nd Battalion. His service was unblemished but then, for some unknown reason, he deserted on 22nd February, 1906. He was only at large 4 days, because he re-enlisted at Whitehaven on the 26th, joining the 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards as William John Johnstone; perhaps Johnstone was his original mother's maiden name?

At some point David and Jane McGuffog moved back to Waberthwaite.

He admitted to being a deserter in June, 1910, and claimed the King's Pardon under Army Order 129 of 1910. I don't know whether he legalised his new name around this time because his marriage to Florence Simmonds in the last quarter of 1912 was as William John Johnstone, and their daughter, born in the Sptember quarter of 1914 was christened Johnstone. Since his alias was known there was no reason for him to continue the pretence beyond June 1910.

However, the CWGC state that his wife was Florence Hilda Johnstone (formerly McGuffog) so this is a real puzzle - and this information was collected in the 1920's. Why would she have been formerly called McGuffog when the GRO reference clearly indicates that she married a Johnstone. This question may never be resolved.

Another point is the listing of his parents by the CWGC as "Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. McGuffog." I think this is just a misprint - David McGuffog was clearly his father.

One last thing arises from Kenneth's newspaper articles. If he was, in fact, killed at Neuve Chapelle, then he should, by rights, be commemorated on the Ploegsteert Memorial rather than the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. Looking at casualties on the same day it is evident that different squadrons of the 4th DG were in different places on October 28th so how certain is it that McGuffog/Johnstone was around Neuve Chapelle rather than at Messines?

Best wishes.
Andy.

There are a few more bits to sort out - i'm still not happy with the Kirkgunzeon connection for example - but it is clearer that John McGuffog
and William John Johnstone are the same person
_________________
Ken

[Stewartry]

John McGuffog, 4th Dragoon Guards

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