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Military Heritage Scotland / Scottish Museum of War
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Adam Brown
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Location: Edinburgh (From Sutherland)

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:21 am    Post subject: Military Heritage Scotland / Scottish Museum of War Reply with quote

Has anyone come across this before?

http://militaryheritagescotland.com/

According to the webpage...

Aims and Objectives

Military Heritage Scotland is a Charity (Charity Number SC03966) set up to create a world class museum facility covering all aspects of Scottish Military History.

It is envisaged that the project will produce a building and destination that will draw visitors nationally and worldwide, providing an opportunity to display warships, submarines, landing craft, armoured vehicles, tanks and fighter planes, allowing visitors to experience them first hand.

The facility will also incorporate educational and research resources with a repository for books, memorabilia and artefacts relating to Scottish Military Heritage, providing a military centre which will encourage Scots of all ages to take an interest in its own history and heritage.



I'm not quite sure where all the exhibits would come since I'd imagine the current museums have a large chunk of Scotland's military hisitory in them already but I take it this is mainly for the large pieces of hardware not currently seen anywhere in Scotland? It will have to be a pretty big site to "display warships, submarines, landing craft, armoured vehicles, tanks and fighter planes" so it's not going to be cheap and I guess it would need to be on the Forth or Clyde to be near the central belt to get the numbers needed to sustain it. I guess they also have the promise of some of these large bits of kit to put in it if it ever comes to fruition?

I'd be interested to know if anyone has heard of it before? It's new to me.

Adam


Last edited by Adam Brown on Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is regd. member 384 (MHS) website.
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhubthaigh wrote:
I think this is regd. member 384 (MHS) website.


Here's hoping MHS will give us a little more information then because there's not much on the website.

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking up the Scottish Charities register (OSCR - Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator) doesn't give us much more but it does show that the charity was only set up a couple of months ago on 23/06/2008

http://www.oscr.org.uk/CharityIndexDetails.aspx?id=SC039666

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More details from this webpage:

http://secretscotland.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/military-heritage-scotland/

The plan is a £100m Scottish Museum of War. Knowing how good the Scots are a building large projects on time and to budget (Scottish Parliament or Edinburgh Trams anyone?) expect this figure to double at least!

Military Heritage Scotland

Set up as a charity, Military Heritage Scotland aims to create a world class museum facility which will embrace all aspects of Scotlandís military history.

The Daily Record covered the story a few weeks ago, Call to build £100m Scottish Museum of War.

Inspired by former Scots Guard James Percy, a steering group has been formed, chaired by Professor Gordon Murray from Strathclyde Universityís School of Architecture and Jon-Marc Creaney of leading architects GCA, and the project is already reported to have attracted a donation from the New York-based Friends of Scotland organisation. The plan is also reported to have received backing from First Minister Alex Salmond Ė for a museum to rival Londonís Imperial War Museum Ė and MPs and MSPs from all parties have also given their support, although there seem to be no tangible contributions (ie cash) so far Ė just the political equivalent of kissing babies and looking good.

At this stage, the organisation is seeking donations to help fund a feasibility study, as they have to establish the location of an appropriate site, likely operation costs, and the potential long term sustainability of the the concept. Weíve noted the demise of one or two formerly well-established museums in Scotland here in recent years, and while their content may make a difference, falling visitor numbers in all but the most wodely publicised venues, eg Kelvingrove, may not be promising. Scotlandís science centres are also pleading for money to keep them open, and places such as The Big Idea in Irvine have simply been unsustainable, and folded.

We donít have such a facility here (yet?), so we have to hope they get the formula right:

It is envisaged that the project will produce a building and destination that will draw visitors nationally and worldwide, providing an opportunity to display warships, submarines, landing craft, armoured vehicles, tanks and fighter planes, allowing visitors to experience them first hand.

The facility will also incorporate educational and research resources with a repository for books, memorabilia and artefacts relating to Scottish Military Heritage, providing a military centre which will encourage Scots of all ages to take an interest in its own history and heritage.

The preferred choice of site would see a world-class floating museum built at Govan docks next to Glasgow Science Centre, with alternative locations possibly being seen in Rosyth, or Leith docks. Collections would take many forms, with warships, submarines and landing craft moored nearby, and tanks, fighter planes, uniforms, medals and memorabilia housed indoors, with special galleries established for notable features and events.

Itís an ambitious project, and has rightly identified both its setup and running costs as key factors, together with its potential for sustainability. It is a particular class of museum that Scotland lacks, and even a casual tour of facilities down south will reveal a glut of related resources, both national and private.

This project deserves serious attention and support, even of only to stem the steady loss of museums and collections that Scotland has seen over the years.


I have amended this thread's title to include Scottish Museum of War so if we hear any more news it can be added here.

Thanks

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've PM'd our forum member MHS and sent a message through the Military Heritage Scotland website asking for more information about MHS.

I've also done a bit more digging around. A couple of years ago the One O'Clock Gun Association made a bid to convert the old Royal High building on Calton Hill in Edinburgh as a museum dedicated to the Scottish Regiments. The bid fell through but one of those involved in the bid was James Percy now of the MHS.

At some point in 2008 there seems to have been a split (or 'palace coup'?) in the One O'Clock Gun Association with two 'factions' using the name.

See here for more details:

http://www.1oclockgun.com/warning.html

Until we hear otherwise I'm guessing that MHS has been formed by the former One O'Clock Gun Association members who have been mounting the displays and are beind the plan for the museum.

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam Brown wrote:
At some point in 2008 there seems to have been a split (or 'palace coup'?) in the One O'Clock Gun Association with two 'factions' using the name.


I've found an Evening News article from around that time which suggests there were some financial irregularities in the One o'Clock Gun Assoc's accounts in early 2008 over a Lottery Fund award and the entire committee at that time was replaced.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Police-target-One-o39Clock-Gun.4315536.jp

Adam
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found an article from 2007 which gives some details of the failed Royal High bid. The current plan would seem to stem from this original plan

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/britisharmedforces/Campaigners-target-lottery-to-win.3302168.jp

CAMPAIGNERS calling for a new military museum in the Capital are to apply for lottery funding to kick-start their bid.
George Robinson, secretary of the One O'Clock Gun Association, is heading a steering committee that wants to see the old Royal High School turned into an exhibition celebrating Scotland's military heritage.

The museum would include multimedia displays telling the stories of some of Edinburgh's bravest sons. Mr Robinson met with council culture and leisure officials this week and agreed to seek funding to carry out a full feasibility study.

Now he is to apply for a lottery grant of up to £10,000 to allow the study to take place and says that, if successful, the scheme can get moving quickly. However, the military museum will only be a possibility if plans for a national photography centre in the old high school are dropped - and organisers behind that project insist it is still "progressing very well".

Mr Robinson, who launched his campaign last December, said: "If we can get money in to carry out the feasibility study it will really get the ball rolling. Once I get the study done it will give us something concrete so I can start approaching people about getting involved in this. At the moment, virtually everyone I've spoken to supports the idea but I need to take it forward from that.

"It may seem at this stage like a shot in the dark to some people but the Royal High School is ideal for something like this."

The council, which owns the Calton Hill building, has backed the Scottish National Photography Centre's rival bid, which is also making a submission for lottery funding. It is thought that around £20 million would need to be raised to renovate the old school and create displays that would bring the country's military history to life for another generation.

The steering group, made up of Mr Robinson, former Scots Guardsman James Percy and other military figures, is confident of winning the support of senior figures within the Royal Regiment of Scotland.

Organisers are adamant it would not clash with Edinburgh Castle's three existing museums - the National War Museum, Royal Scots Museum and the Dragoon Guards Museum.

But Michael Shea, chairman of the Scottish National Photography Centre, insists that his steering group is still on track for moving into the former Royal High building. He said: "We are progressing very well and pursuing this actively.

"We are continuing to pull together the business plan and keeping moving in the right direction and the city is very much behind us."

The city council confirmed it had an informal meeting with organisers of the military museum. A city council spokesman said: "We are happy to take on board and consider ideas although this idea is at an early stage.

"The council has been in discussions with the Hill Adamson Photography Centre at the old Royal High School. This is at a reasonably advanced state with a proposal expected in the near future."

Would a military museum be a good idea for the city?

Rebecca Smith, 23, researcher, Montrose Terrace: "I think it would be a great idea. Calton Hill is one of the most historic sites in Edinburgh and you get great views.

Elfrida Nelson, 78, retired teacher, Morningside: "I don't think it's a good idea because there is already quite a military presence at the Castle. I think the idea of a photography centre is a great idea."

Does the city's military history warrant a museum? Let us know.
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way the Photography Centre proposal for the Royal High has fallen through now so that building is still sitting empty after all these years. I wonder if the MHS is interested in it?

Adam
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Jim



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of instigating inter-city rivalry.............. Very Happy

If such a project is to go ahead I'd suggest a riverside location would be better than a city centre one in as much as it'd allow the Royal Navy to play a fuller part in the museum when completed. The arrival of even a small warship is always a crowd-puller and, if combined with a military museum, would bring benefits to both attractions.

Being a Glaswegian I'd obviously prefer a location on the Clyde and the space adjacent to the new Museum of Transport and across the river from where BVT are still building warships would be ideal. Space for an indoor museum with outdoor attractions, access for ships and an adjacent helipad.
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David McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it extremely unlikely that any museum would be able to either afford or acquire a warship from the Royal Navy. The best bet for a museum on Clydeside would have been HMS Glasgow, which was decommissioned in 2005. It has since gone to the scrapyard.

This whole discussion/proposal is very vague. It's all very well to talk up a museum containing planes, ships, etc. Where will they come from? How much will it all cost?

Don't get me wrong: I'd love it to happen, but I'm sceptical that it ever will.
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Jim



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David McNay wrote:
I think it extremely unlikely that any museum would be able to either afford or acquire a warship from the Royal Navy. The best bet for a museum on Clydeside would have been HMS Glasgow, which was decommissioned in 2005. It has since gone to the scrapyard.

This whole discussion/proposal is very vague. It's all very well to talk up a museum containing planes, ships, etc. Where will they come from? How much will it all cost?

Don't get me wrong: I'd love it to happen, but I'm sceptical that it ever will.


I didn't mean as a permanent exhibit. Just an occasional visit.
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Adam Brown
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

Edinburgh vs Glasgow, no rivalry, just healthy debate!

Actually to sustain a museum of this size I'm sure the West would have to be the location anyway.

If they can't have a full-time ship like HMS Belfast at last they could visit as Jim suggests.

Adam
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Jim



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a foot in both camps as my father was an Edinburgh man.
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David McNay
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no preference either way, and I say that as an Aberdonian!

Jim, was there any credit as to where the exhibits had come from? I'm interested to know if they're on loan from some of the regimental collections or if they came from a private collector.
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