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METHVEN, UNITED PRESBYTERIAN (Former) WW1
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: METHVEN, UNITED PRESBYTERIAN (Former) WW1 Reply with quote

This plaque is now located in the Methven & Logiealmond Church;

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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The former United Presbyterian Church on the main street, now a community hall;
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may have noticed but this plaque also commemorates 'Alexander Dale Muir and George Muir, Canadians, sons of the last minister of Culdees United Free Church'.
Now where exactly the Culdees Free Church was/is I do not know. However this plaque has thrown up a little mystery - I cannot find Alexander Dale Muir.
I have checked the SNWM, CWGC, Canadian Veterans Affairs, Canadian Attestation Papers - nothing, apparently.

George is there;
Name: MUIR
Initials: G
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles (Saskatchewan Regiment)
Age: 20
Date of Death: 26/08/1918
Service No: 425109
Additional information: Son of George and Margaret Muir, of The Manse, Bradwardine, Manitoba.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. D. 44.
Cemetery: AUBIGNY COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

and attestation papers show he was born in Methven;
http://data4.collectionscanada.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s1=&s2=&s3=425109+&Sect4=AND&l=20&Sect1=IMAGE&Sect2=THESOFF&Sect5=CEF6PEN&Sect6=HITOFF&d=CEF6&p=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collectionscanada.ca%2Farchivianet%2Fcef%2F001042-100.01-e.html&r=0&f=S

I did however find an Alexander Dale Muir commemorated on the WW1 Memorial at Harvard University Memorial Church, USA.
http://www.memorialchurch.harvard.edu/history/ww1.shtml

I did check the American Battle Monuments just in case, but No.

Anyone got the CEF Roll of Honour, he may be included there? I've happened across quite a few 'Canadians' locally that do not appear on the CWGC.
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chris.wight



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
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Location: Lakewood, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, I put his name into the London Gazette search engine and got this entry in Issue 29236, dated 20th July, 1915:

6th Battalion, The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders);
Alexander Dale Muir to be Second Lieutenant. Dated 5th July, 1915.


He is mentioned as A.D. Muir:

Issue 29895, 8th January, 1917:

Royal Highlanders.—The undermentioned 2nd Lts. to be temp. Lts.:
A, D. Muir. 1st Aug. 1916.


Issue 29936, dated 10th February, 1917:

Royal Highlanders.—
2nd Lt. (temp. Lt.) A. D. Muir relinquishes his commission on account of illhealth, 11th Feb. 1917.


Unfortunately, I cannot find a medal index card for him, perhaps he never claimed his medals or the M.I.C. transcribers made an error with his entry?

Since he resigned his commission due to ill health, perhaps he died after the 1922 CWGC cutoff date thus no entry.
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris,
Thanks for your efforts.

Going back to the Harvard connection this page lists their photo collection and his date of death as 12th April 1917

http://oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~hua13003

Quote:
There is an Oct 1912 border crossing with him as a student, age 24? (it is smudged or marked), going to Cambridge, Mass in the USA. His father George in Lauder, Manitoba is listed.
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Annette
Researching War Brides from WWI
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALEXANDER DALE MUIR'S death occurred 12/04/1917, aged 30, at Hillside Home, Kinnoull, Perthshire (usual residence - Bradwardine, Manitoba, Canada). He was recorded as B.A. assistant professor, Harvard University, U.S.A. (lieut. 1/6 Batt. The Black Watch). Sone of george Muir, Presbyterian Minister and Margaret Muir m.s. Ronald.
Another who has slipped the official CWGC & SNWM records though he is commemorated at Harvard University and a plaque at Methven, Perthshire! I wonder if he is commemorated somewhere in Canada?


Last edited by dhubthaigh on Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have e-mailed Harvard University with a view to obtaining Alexander Dale Muir's photo from their archives. Heres hoping

rgds.,
Mark
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phthisis (Greek for consumption)
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chris.wight



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, that's great you were able to come up his death certificate which agrees with all the other details. Initially I though the Harvard information regarding his death may have been in error which would have accounted for his not being listed by the CWGC.

I wonder if he was buried in Perth or if his body was returned to Bradwardine for burial there? A google search showed there are two United Churches not too far from Bradwardine.

From what I've read on the Great War forum, you should have enough information for the CWGC to include him in their listings. Terry Denham of GWF has been very helpful in getting men added to the CWGC entries.
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apanderson
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a copy of all the Muirs for Scotland from the now defunct BWMP which I checked just in case he had been found somewhere- but no luck.

It's always the way - every Muir but the right Muir!

Anne
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scotone



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Alexander Dale Muir Reply with quote

My grandfather was John Jamieson Muir, brother of George Muir who was the father of Alexander Dale Muir. In my collection of photos I have a full length picture of Alexander Dale Muir which I would be pleased to share.

I note that I cannot upload from my computer to this forum. Can you give me a way to send the picture, please.

Peggy
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scotone



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Alexander Dale Muir Reply with quote

I should have mentioned that the picture of Alexander Dale Muir is in uniform.

Thank you,
Peggy
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peggy,

Great to hear from you on the forum. It would be great to have a photo of Alexander Dale Muir. I contacted Harvard U.S.A. but they never got back to me.
Would you have/know if a picture of Alexander's brother George existed?

I could p.m. you with my e-mail and you could send the pics to me if that is possible

rgds.,
Mark
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scotone



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject: Alexander Dale Muir Reply with quote

I would be happy to e-mail you the picture if you can provide your e-mail address.

Peggy
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dhubthaigh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peggy,

PM should be with you.
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